turbo buicks
ESADAH!!!
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2002
LOCKUP OR NON LOCKUP?
bulletproof my 200r4 or go TH400?
- Thread starter Grandnat
- Start date
Russ Merritt
New Member
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2002
I vote for the 200. I had an Eric Shertz N/L Hi-Pro in my street car that took everything I gave it. I took it out and sold it as I wanted the billet internal L/U trans from the race car in there but she is still going strong in a TTA now. I'm pretty sure they are still 1500$ from him too. If you drive the car on the street and isn't running 9s or better, the 200 is the best choice. Overdrive is a blessing you will miss with the 400.
ttypewhite
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2001
As mentioned above you can use the stock flywheel. Loss of ET and MPH is false. And it is not considerably heavier then the 200R. Some people make it seem like you are putting another 60 pounds onto the car. The difference is not catatrophic. Reverse manual valve body and shifting on the street makes the car a joy to drive. Had this setup in a twin turbo GN and I loved every aspect of it. When the car had a full exhaust on, street driving was so enjoyable. It gives fun factor a whole new meaning. Alot of people over dramatize the differences between the two and after driving both setups first hand experience there are no downsides to a T400 aside from no overdrive. So from the money you save beefing up a 200R get the gear vendors unit if overdrive is that big of a concern.
B&M also has a airshifter that can be installed with this unit if you don't like the idea of shifting the car at the track but want the transbrake. Just don't leave your hand on the shifter while its engaged unless you want a broken wrist
B&M also has a airshifter that can be installed with this unit if you don't like the idea of shifting the car at the track but want the transbrake. Just don't leave your hand on the shifter while its engaged unless you want a broken wrist
I am glad there are differing opinions on this matter... This will be a good thread to help someone with the decision I had to make.
For me it came down to reliability and $$$
I know I cannot hurt the TH400 with the 34 element sprag.... and a rebuild is only $300 if anything were to fail.
try having that piece of mind with a 200r4
so I decided, spend $1100 once....
or spend $1500+ possibly several times over the life of my car.
once I looked at it like that, it was an easy choice.
I do not reccomend the TH400 unless you are DEEP in the 10s however.
anything short of that you can get a 200 to live and have the added benefit of overdrive.
For me it came down to reliability and $$$
I know I cannot hurt the TH400 with the 34 element sprag.... and a rebuild is only $300 if anything were to fail.
try having that piece of mind with a 200r4
so I decided, spend $1100 once....
or spend $1500+ possibly several times over the life of my car.
once I looked at it like that, it was an easy choice.
I do not reccomend the TH400 unless you are DEEP in the 10s however.
anything short of that you can get a 200 to live and have the added benefit of overdrive.
Go with the TH400
Ive been drivin around with mine for a year and i havent even enjoyed the nonbrokenness advantage at the track yet - the overdrive loss isnt that bad, unless for some reason you use the car for far drives that require continual highway rollin.
I would however agree that unless you plan to go into tens, just use a 2004r, otherwise the strength of the 400 is basically useless.
As far as putting it in the car, you just need mount, yoke, and possibly (depending on GM manufacturing tolerances) cut driveshaft (mine didnt need cut).
Ive been drivin around with mine for a year and i havent even enjoyed the nonbrokenness advantage at the track yet - the overdrive loss isnt that bad, unless for some reason you use the car for far drives that require continual highway rollin.
I would however agree that unless you plan to go into tens, just use a 2004r, otherwise the strength of the 400 is basically useless.
As far as putting it in the car, you just need mount, yoke, and possibly (depending on GM manufacturing tolerances) cut driveshaft (mine didnt need cut).
ttypewhite
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2001
ATI. Its expensive but worth every penny. Give Billy Anderson a call he will set you on the right path, because thats where we got the parts from.
i dont have any passes on the tranny yet as i have a converter that will be completely destroyed if i tried - its a B&M holeshot at around 3000 stall.
Soon i will have passes on it as the transbrake came in last week and i will be getting a Pats billet converter with a stall around 3200. Ive heard pretty good FB with his converters.
- its a B&M holeshot at around 3000 stall. Soon i will have passes on it as the transbrake came in last week and i will be getting a Pats billet converter with a stall around 3200. Ive heard pretty good FB with his converters.
DonnieShort
Who's Next?
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
This may be a stupid question but...
Are all TH400's the same or are some different? If different what is the desirable one to get? And are they a non-lock or a lockup tranny or can it be made either?
Are all TH400's the same or are some different? If different what is the desirable one to get? And are they a non-lock or a lockup tranny or can it be made either?
I believe most 400's are pretty much the same. Obviously you will need a BOP bellhousing, not the chevy style which are more common. Also, some 400s in the 60's ('64-'67 ring a bell?!?) have different components that are not interchangeable. The sprague element is different and the center support bushing area is weaker - leading to failure or excessive busing wear in HP apps. (if im off folks, please correct me - its been awhile!). Also, the clutch apply hubs in the drums (in the '64 to '67) i believe are stamped steel instead of the stronger cast aluminum ones in the later models. GM also incorporated some other minor things such as the spark control on the valve body and such... (just plug it with 1/8NPT). I'm pretty sure, other than what i have mentioned, the units are fairly interchangeable. Just read the serial tags riveted to the tranny housing located above the pan to find the year of the tranny.
Tranny experts: if my statements need 'tweaked', please do so!
Tranny experts: if my statements need 'tweaked', please do so!
From a Hemmings Motor News article I had on my computer...
http://www.hemmings.com
TH400s were made in a couple of different versions, so knowing the year of the transmission is important to facilitate your being able to swap it into your car easily. The first-generation units were only used in Buick, Olds, and Cadillac, and incorporated a variable-pitch torque converter. This converter could change its stall speed during use, based on an electrical impulse from a switch on the carburetor or accelerator pedal sent to a two-prong switch in the side of the transmission. This variable-pitch version of the TH400 was only used from 1965 to mid-1967. Later units had a fixed-pitch converter and had a one-prong switch, the two-prong "pitch switch" was not used.
Another way to identify the early variable-pitch units is by the transmission pan. The earlier pans were identical in shape to the later pans, and all used the same 13-bolt hole pattern; however, the variable-pitch transmissions had four indentations in the pan (one large oval-shaped indentation as well as three small "dimples" around it). The late-1967 and up transmissions used a pan with only two small "dimples" in it. If the pan is not on the transmission, the early filter had an intake pipe attached to it and could be washed and re-used. The later filter was flatter with no intake pipe, and was a throwaway unit. All TH400s used a large black can-type vacuum modulator located on the side of the transmission by the dipstick tube. When you find a transmission for a car newer than 1968, the vehicle's original VIN number will be stamped on the casing. So that would be yet another way to ensure the transmission is not a variable-pitch unit.
Shifting ratios were as follows:
1st 2.48:1
2nd 1.48:1
3rd 1.00:1
Reverse 2.08:1
You can find a donor TH400 in one of these vehicles:
o 1981-1982 Avanti II
o 1964-1981 Buick full-size and mid-size models with big-block V-8
o 1964-1981 Cadillac rear-wheel drive (also in 1982 to 1988 limousines)
o 1965-1977 Chevrolet full-size and mid-size models with big-block V-8
o 1969-1977 Corvettes
o 1966-1991 Chevrolet and GMC pickups
o 1975-1982 Checker
o 1965-1977 Oldsmobile full-size and mid-size models with big-block V-8
o 1965-1979 Jeep
o 1965-1977 Pontiac full-size and mid-size models with big-block V-8
http://www.hemmings.com
TH400s were made in a couple of different versions, so knowing the year of the transmission is important to facilitate your being able to swap it into your car easily. The first-generation units were only used in Buick, Olds, and Cadillac, and incorporated a variable-pitch torque converter. This converter could change its stall speed during use, based on an electrical impulse from a switch on the carburetor or accelerator pedal sent to a two-prong switch in the side of the transmission. This variable-pitch version of the TH400 was only used from 1965 to mid-1967. Later units had a fixed-pitch converter and had a one-prong switch, the two-prong "pitch switch" was not used.
Another way to identify the early variable-pitch units is by the transmission pan. The earlier pans were identical in shape to the later pans, and all used the same 13-bolt hole pattern; however, the variable-pitch transmissions had four indentations in the pan (one large oval-shaped indentation as well as three small "dimples" around it). The late-1967 and up transmissions used a pan with only two small "dimples" in it. If the pan is not on the transmission, the early filter had an intake pipe attached to it and could be washed and re-used. The later filter was flatter with no intake pipe, and was a throwaway unit. All TH400s used a large black can-type vacuum modulator located on the side of the transmission by the dipstick tube. When you find a transmission for a car newer than 1968, the vehicle's original VIN number will be stamped on the casing. So that would be yet another way to ensure the transmission is not a variable-pitch unit.
Shifting ratios were as follows:
1st 2.48:1
2nd 1.48:1
3rd 1.00:1
Reverse 2.08:1
You can find a donor TH400 in one of these vehicles:
o 1981-1982 Avanti II
o 1964-1981 Buick full-size and mid-size models with big-block V-8
o 1964-1981 Cadillac rear-wheel drive (also in 1982 to 1988 limousines)
o 1965-1977 Chevrolet full-size and mid-size models with big-block V-8
o 1969-1977 Corvettes
o 1966-1991 Chevrolet and GMC pickups
o 1975-1982 Checker
o 1965-1977 Oldsmobile full-size and mid-size models with big-block V-8
o 1965-1979 Jeep
o 1965-1977 Pontiac full-size and mid-size models with big-block V-8
ou can find a donor TH400 in one of these vehicles:
o 1981-1982 Avanti II
o 1964-1981 Buick full-size and mid-size models with big-block V-8
o 1964-1981 Cadillac rear-wheel drive (also in 1982 to 1988 limousines)
o 1965-1977 Chevrolet full-size and mid-size models with big-block V-8
o 1969-1977 Corvettes
o 1966-1991 Chevrolet and GMC pickups
o 1975-1982 Checker
o 1965-1977 Oldsmobile full-size and mid-size models with big-block V-8
o 1965-1979 Jeep
o 1965-1977 Pontiac full-size and mid-size models with big-block V-8 Y
I've got a complete '71 Buick Riv. TH 400 thats been riding around with me in the back of my Suburban all winter...great for that occasional added traction
Alas, spring is not far away. Anyone interested in this 400?
I hate to have to delegate it to the scrap pile.
o 1981-1982 Avanti II
o 1964-1981 Buick full-size and mid-size models with big-block V-8
o 1964-1981 Cadillac rear-wheel drive (also in 1982 to 1988 limousines)
o 1965-1977 Chevrolet full-size and mid-size models with big-block V-8
o 1969-1977 Corvettes
o 1966-1991 Chevrolet and GMC pickups
o 1975-1982 Checker
o 1965-1977 Oldsmobile full-size and mid-size models with big-block V-8
o 1965-1979 Jeep
o 1965-1977 Pontiac full-size and mid-size models with big-block V-8 Y
I've got a complete '71 Buick Riv. TH 400 thats been riding around with me in the back of my Suburban all winter...great for that occasional added traction
Alas, spring is not far away. Anyone interested in this 400?
I hate to have to delegate it to the scrap pile.
