Billet roller cam thrust issue

[N2BUICK]

Looking for advice on cause of cam nose torrington bearing failure. Bearing still spins but one of the plates have cracked and pieces got in motor. There is some additional wear on the from motor sports cover. Others built motor some years ago not sure if thrust clearances were set. The cam gear/cam sensor does not have a dedicated oiling. The oil pump is external belt driven. This is a solid roller stage 2 motor i have " re inherited " after owning it 15 years ago.
Some use a thrust setup on the rear of the cam, have not seen much talk about this set up good or bad?

 

[Nick Micale]

Of all the methods of billet cam retention we prefer the "Danny Bee" style which is a plate screwed to the block, we do all our billet cams with this way, stage, alum or stock blocks, and it is extremely reliable.

The cam needs to be machined for this method, and TA Performance makes the kit.

 

[750H.P.V6]

It's possible that the cam thrust wasn't set properly when the engine was originally assembled. On a roller cam there shouldn't be any thrust fore and aft. I've had problems with the Danny Bee type set up as there is very little contact surface between the cam gear and the camshaft itself due to the machining necessary to install it. This is made worse by running a Rollmaster timing set as the top gear has a large chamfer machined on the back face which further diminishes the contact area. Depending on the spring pressures you are running with your solid roller cam I'd opt for something different.

Neal

 

[ttypewhite]

Of all the methods of billet cam retention we prefer the "Danny Bee" style which is a plate screwed to the block, we do all our billet cams with this way, stage, alum or stock blocks, and it is extremely reliable.

The cam needs to be machined for this method, and TA Performance makes the kit.

Nick, would you happen to have a picture of this setup by chance that you could post on a engine, or by itself? I was looking on TA's website and don't see a picture in the description.

 

[N2BUICK]

I have not heard any problems with the Danny Bee set up. I did have another motor with it already set up and all seem OK. Nick seems to be happy with this set up. I put very few street miles on my Buick stuff, just 1/4 mile at a time.
I was hoping to solve my current problem without having to have something machined. I also was hoping for some input for this group about the rear cam thrust set up. A race associate has this device and would like to see it put on. I am not sure of its track record or installation requirements(does something need to be machined) ?
Neal yes i am not sure of the cam thrust set up went it was built. It will be looked into.
Was also hoping to have someone say, with good clearances , just put a dedicated oil system on those areas and all your problems will go away.
Does anyone have a proven set up to oil these areas? I have seen them mentioned and pics also in the past.
Neal if you get in to Search on this site, look for "Danny Bee Cam and Thrust plate and hardware" it has a great of these components.

 

[750H.P.V6]

Based on your pics I would say there was no thrust clearance when the front cover was installed. The clearance has to be checked carefully as it will change when the cover is tightened in place and the front cover gasket compresses. You mentioned the idea of additional oiling to this area. This is a modification myself and others have made but not to mitigate the problem you are seeing. It is typically done to help reduce wear between the cam gear and distributor / camshaft sensor gear.

Neal

 

[Boost231]

I'm going to say thrust was never checked. Looks like the cover was cranked on the block with way to many shims in place.. you need to have some thrust on roller. It's easy to check with the intake off. It takes a few trys to get it right.

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[750H.P.V6]

Brent is correct. I re-read my first post and it is a bit confusing. What I was trying to get across is that with a roller cam vs a flat tappet cam there really shouldn't be fore / aft thrust loading. This isn't to say you don't need clearance. Somewhere around .010" is where you should be.

Neal

 

[Boost231]

I shot for .008 to .010



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[bison]

Based on your pics I would say there was no thrust clearance when the front cover was installed. The clearance has to be checked carefully as it will change when the cover is tightened in place and the front cover gasket compresses. You mentioned the idea of additional oiling to this area. This is a modification myself and others have made but not to mitigate the problem you are seeing. It is typically done to help reduce wear between the cam gear and distributor / camshaft sensor gear.

Neal

Neal I agree with your assessment. Looks like it was preloaded and friction took its toll.


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[bison]

I shot for .008 to .010



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Yup. I just want to see visual movement. If I see what appears too much I’ll add a .005”. If I can’t see anything at that point I’ll remove the .005” and try again. Too little can be as bad as too much


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