Bad thrust bearing in 370 miles?

Silver 'T' Top

New Member
Joined
May 15, 2005
Granted these things are tempermental and all, but what would you guys say caused the main thrust bearing to go south in such a short amount of time on an engine that was basically spared little expense to be done up right? And to top it off wasn't even hotrodded in this short time frame??? :mad:
 
thrust bearig wear

Hi,
Wow, this is unusual. Could there be a misalignment somehow, or major loading of that bearing caused by the torque converter? What happens when the rods are mixed up side to side? I'm speculating, of course, because I frankly don't know. Anybody?
 
Longshot , but if you happened to change the tourque converter at the same time , they when not spaced correctly can cause this?
 
Tranny line pressure over 130psi #1 reason and not correct clearance from convertor to pump
 
Had the "billet" caps installed, and the TC was changed to a Vigilante L/U unit. Never heard of anyone else having problems with this combination. :confused:
 
trans

I assume you have a 200R4 trans since you have a Lockup convertor.
I assume Bobby is talking about a 400. I run 270 lbs. (WOT) line pressure on my 200 with a Vigilantie.
 
If its the gold dust you're talking about, switch to the new Federal Mogul. The end play will be a little tighter, i.e., you'll probably have closer to .005 or .006, but they'll flow more oil to the crank thrust surface and actually polish it. They have silicon-injected aluminum thrust surfaces, with full exit grooves, that are ramped to force more oil (increase lubrication) between the two surfaces. I fought the same problem before wising up. Check the crank thrust surface before installing. If it looks/feels smooth it probably has not gone south. I.e., I believe its a bearing problem rather than a crankshaft problem. E.g., Clevites have the worst thrust surfaces on the market. However, if the crank shaft wore through the soft bearing layer, you'll have to sand it smooth. This will require a shoe made from your old FRONT BOTTOM thrust bearing. RTV some 400-1000 grit to it (this requires cutting it to shape first and letting set for a few hours) and JB Weld a rod to it at an angle to hold it without getting hit by revolving counterbalances. Then just coat the bottom of it and the crank journal with some prelube, remove the plugs, put oil on the sand paper surface, and have someone crank the engine. Minimize the cranking because the lifters will be losing prime. Remember, it only takes a few seconds for micro-oxidation to form so keep oil on everything. Leave the old top thrust bearing in place until you're done then clean/oil before installing/seating the new bearing shells. Make sure the end play is even, top to bottom, on the rear surface. Its really not as much trouble as it sounds and I think you'll be amazed at what a simple fix it was after you're done. Whatever you do, analyze the oil by removing the filter and pouring out every few miles. It will contain residual for awhile but should clear on out.
 
Did the machine shop align hone the main bearing areas with the new billet caps on? If not, then the main bearing may not be circular. This will definitely cause main bearing problems. I hoped the main saddle areas were also 100% mic'ed after that to ensure they were not too big or small.

What's you front to back crank end play? Torque converter balooning (front to back) will beat up the thrust bearing, like said.

JoelGN: Thanks for the Federal-Mogul main bearing tip.

-Mike H.
 
Have a 200r4, the thing was align honed/ bored for the new caps IIRC(have to look at paperwork.Ain't gold dust I'm talking about, the thing started getting a knock to it already, haven't measured front to back endplay, but when you can push the crank back and forth with 2 fingers , chances are damn good its way too much, Plus it got our attention when I started it up when we took the belt off. :eek: See what the builder has to say Monday I guess, this whole TR thing is starting to cause a very sour taste in my mouth right about now!! :frown:
 
Can you hear the knock or picking it up on the gauge? I think i'm going through the same problem. Fresh motor (800 mi) w/girdle ,clevite 77 bearings and vigilante 9.5 lock-up.My knock gauge is been going crazy (even with the trans in park I can get 18 deg KR by snapping the throttle to about 4000 rpm) but I cant hear any knock.I dont mean to high jack your thread but I too am getting discourged
 
Silver 'T' Top said:
Granted these things are tempermental and all, but what would you guys say caused the main thrust bearing to go south in such a short amount of time on an engine that was basically spared little expense to be done up right? And to top it off wasn't even hotrodded in this short time frame??? :mad:

I just had the same type of problem.

Motor had about 500 miles on it & I was trying to track down excessive knock..even at idle.

Come to find out..the crank was sliding back & forth.

I pulled the motor Saturday & I am replacing the crank & bearings..won't know everything until the machine shop inspects.

Let me know what you find out..I'll do the same.
 
BobbyBuick said:
Tranny line pressure over 130psi #1 reason and not correct clearance from convertor to pump

I will be checking this thanks to your tip.

Appreciate it.
 
interesting

i have a motor i took out of my t. i have to check the thrust/endplay to it as well. my problem started when i bought the car a few years back, ran good for about 2k miles and then lost all oil pressure over time as well as lifter noise and slight rod knock at startup. they rebuilt the engine again (i think all they did was cut the crank again cuz bearings say 20th.) ran good for another few thousand miles and now i'm back inthe same boat. any ideas guys? any help will be greatly appreciated.
 
bearings

I discovered this recently--I took a 109 block to my local shop for billet center caps. When I started removing the caps to clean block, both center billet caps were not square or 90 degrees to the crank bore (knowing it would never work, I laid a crank in the block and could not even get the caps on as they were hitting the thrust surface of the crank). I loosened the caps and with a brass rod straightened them up. When I torqued them back down they went crooked again. Had to return block and explain what I found. Re line bored and then I had to order another chain since now the crank is closer to cam. POOR machine work= disaster for the consumer. If I were you I would be looking @ how the caps fit. A machine shop will tell you anything to save them a $.
 
When I was trying to track down the excessive knock..there was considerable noise coming from what sounded like the torque convertor area.

I disconnected the convertor from the flywheel & started the car.

The noise was almost gone..you could still hear it a little bit though.

I realize there wasn't nearly as much load on the crank then..& that the damage had already been done..but does that point more towards the convertor as the culprit?

Maybe not..I just thought I'd ask you guys.

I'm a complete novice when it comes to trannys..but when I first started driving the car after motor/tranny installation..it was shifting really hard & I'm wondering if that was related at all.

I was concerned enough that I finally ended up adjusting the throttle cable some to try & ease the shifting.

Any thoughts?
 
I had the same problem with a fresh rebuild at about 500 miles. It probably actually happened with less than 500 miles - that happens to be when I finally realized that it was the thrust bearing. It has billet mains and at the time I had a ProTorque 10.5" converter in it. It developed a very subtle knock very soon after I got the car put back together. It got a bit louder in the 500 miles but not alarmingly so.

Then I noticed that my serpentine belt was shredding on the edge. Funny, I didn't have that problem before the rebuild. I thought something was out of alignment until I noticed that the crank pulley was moving back and forth. Not willing to accept the fact that the new motor could have this problem I replaced the balancer. Naturally that wasn't it. It was the thrust bearing.

The engine guy tore it down and fixed it but never really determined what caused the problem. The new crank was wiped out in that short period of time. I had the converter checked out by ProTorque to be safe and it came back okay. I put the same ProTorque converter behind the re-rebuilt engine but used washers (I'd say about 1/8" thick) to put the converter farther away from the crank (on the advice of the rebuilder). I've since replaced the converter with a 9x11 but I did put the washers back in. I have about 5k miles on it now without any trouble.

Jim
 
I think you guys are talking about two different line pressures. Bobby is talking about the pressure in the line to the transmission cooler, since that is the pressure in the torque converter and that with the area of the input shaft acting as a piston determines how hard the torque converter pushes on the flexplate and thus on the thrust bearing. From memory, on a 200-4R this needs to be under 100 psi or so, and on a TH400 with its bigger input shaft needs to be under maybe 60 psi? Memory isn't clear :), but there have been a few threads on this over the last couple of years so the archives will have better numbers. Lee is talking about the internal line pressure which depending on the setup can be over 300 psi and maybe approach 400 psi.
 
Top