Art Carr vs Vigilante

[Ted]

Going to buy a small diameter single disk lockup. Myself and three of my friends have had nothing but good luck with the Vigilante over the past 4 years or so. I called and talked with a respected vendor and he swears by the Art Carr. They have the same dry weight.

With similar stall will these two perform about the same?

What about strength - Vigilantes have a 2 year warranty and Art Carr only 1.


Any input will be great, need to get something order by next week.


Thanks,
T

 

[RickWI]

I ran an Art Carr for a couple of years and thought it worked great. It was a non lockup version though. I thought though Art Carr was always against running a lock up in high performance applications?

 

[Ted]

This is just the thing. I called a known Vendor and asked about a vigilante. He told me they were not as good as the Art Carr lockup's. I didn't know he made them either. As I have never seen one before or heard of a car with them. He swears buy them and said there are ALOT out there.

 

[azgn]

as l/u coverters go, Precision is the best (I am speaking of the multi-clutch variety though, a different animal than the single)

I ASSume you are not planning on locking the converter at the track?

 

[Ted]

Woody, you can ASSume that I will be locking at the track. As we have seen these things last for limited track use. The car will only see 1-3 track day over an entire year. Precision told me that it would be fine to lock the converter on a mid 11 sec in the top of third.

Thanks......

 

[78oldscutlass]

I run the billet 9.5 L/U Art Carr converter.

I had wonderful service so far with the unit. I have had it for 2 years now.

They got the stall right on the first try. It better be for $750.

-78oldscutlass

 

[national]

You ever think of running the 9/11 converters? They are suppose to be a great conver & you can lock them up alot..I dotn have any of them but from what Ive heard the 9/11 should be an awesome all around converter..didnt know if they are that good or just a phase alot of people are going through..
Brian

 

[turbov6joe]

I wouldn't lock a single disc at WOT unless your ok with wasting the clutch. Of course PI says it's ok to lock it now and again, they want your $250 min to break it open and tell you the clutch material is wasted. I had a single disc and slipped it no problem, and that was just locking it in 3rd. I then went to a 9/11...HUGE mistake as the car never again launched like it did with the PI. I now run a PI 5 disc that is all and more then I'll need for a while....money well spent. You can spend it now or later, might as well get it over with now....JMO

 

[Ted]

Joe, I see your point and I like the feedback. The thing is if you are talking about yout TTA that turns 125mph it is making a lot more horsepower.

I had a PI in the past along with 4 of my friends/fellow racers. No one has had a bad experience with stock engine cars from high 12's to high 11's. My roomate bought one from a guy used and it was like three years after the original purchase date. He sent it to them for a once over. The opened it replaced all questionable parts NO CHARGE, all he paid was shipping. Another friend of mine sent his back after four years. NO CHARGE. They seem to bend over backwards, atleast this is what I have seen. On top of that we have never seen one fail. Daily driving, racing, once in a while lockup at the tack, no problems thus far.

I hear great things about the 9/11 but I can't bring myself to buy one with what I have seen from PI.

 

[turbov6joe]

Actually it was on my GN that at the time only ran 118-120 mph. Me and my pop both bought a 9/11 at the same time...he went from a loose PMAC 12" to it, and I from the PI single disc to the 9/11. To this day I swear they f'ed up the order and gave him my converter (looser) as his car spools like a beast with a PT52 and mine like a slug with a 63-1. I would take me a month of Sunday's to get 15 psi on the line...couldn't bracket brace for crap due to this!! Spend the extra $$$ and get the PI multi disc, you'll be happy you did later on. I would also get at least a #6 pump for the extra stall

 

[Ted]

We have used the pump "0" and had really good luck with it.

What does the "0" pump stall in your opinion as compared to the "6"????????

Here is another point to consider, what are the dry shipping weights of each? I know a 5 disc PI is up around 37lbs and a 12 inch is around 40. A single disk PI comes in around 30lbs, and a Art Carr without the lockup is only 20.

If I were to have a fast car it would be with a non-lockup converter.

 

[turbov6joe]

I have a hard time jumping on the "fast car, non-lock converter" biz. Why would you or anyone not want a true 1:1 while hauling ass down the strip? Some folks claim locking it is hard on the tranny....I had a PMAC tranny that lasted 6 seasons of HARD racing, and I locked it at the line on every pass. Unless you have a stage 1 or 2 motor/combo that can hang with spinning at 6000+ rpm, the loose non-lock converters are less efficient IMO.
As for what a #0 or #6 stalls at is not a complete science as I'm sure your well aware of....all depends on what kind of power your motor makes. My old #0 would flash to 3800 no problem, my new #6 flashes over 4000. The advertised stall rpm is a good guesstimate of an rpm range, that's about it. I would say that going from a 0 to a 6 would net you an honest 600 rpm gain.

 

[Ted]

Good points.

What I am saying about the non-lock is simply weight. Taking an extra 17lbs off of the crank shaft has got to be big, would you agree? That is my question is it worth to lock the converter and gain the weight? That extra weight has got to take life off the engine

For stall the car has a TA-60 and PTE.63 it won't need much stall, as it has gone in the 1.6x's with an orange stripe, just have to really twist it. I think the "0" will do very well. How I like to rate boost is on a stock weight GN at ZERO boost. I think my old "0" pump would pull no more then 2700 at zero boost.

Thanks

 

[turbov6joe]

I don't think 17 pounds is worth loosing the 1:1 ratio on both the track and the highway....are you sure of those weight numbers? Look at it this way, even the 5 disc is a lose of weight over the stock 12", so it's a win/win for ya. I also think the 0 pump will work good with your combo....I'm just on this super loose kick these days. I love to drive the TTA on the street with the #6 pump...boost is right here right now quick and the tranny temps stay in check on the road when it locks.

 

[Ted]

For the weight. Well I have weighed 12inch models, and PI single disk. I had a respected racer (now with a 8.80 car) tell me that the Art Carr was 20lbs dry. So this is not the gospel but from what I have seen

stock/12inch = 40lbs
PI 9.5 single = 30lbs
Art Carr non lock = 20lbs

I called Cotton and he had a two year old PI 5 disk sitting on the shelf and he got off the phone and put it on a scale. He said 37lbs, so that is my base of info.

Side note, he does not like the PI converters and doesn't sell them anymore. He has that 2 year old, but brand new PI 5 disk collecting dust that he doesn't push. I am nobody special and he said he would sell the PI 5 disk for $800 just to get rid of it. If you know anyone, there it is............

----For the stall speed of the "0" pump. Just hoping it will have more foot and flash stall then the GSCA Orange stripe.

Thanks........

 

[azgn]

oh, it'll have more stall.....I could flash my "0" pump to 4000 (normal launch rpm)

I dunno what Jack is selling if he doesn't like the PI?

I tried a billet 9/11 lu........I put my PI back in

the 9/11 had a very weak lock up compared to the PI

if you have a street car I would prolly go with the 9/11......the PI has its downsides (noise, weight) but it is the only way to go if you want a l/u on a race car (that is driven on the street)