Any talk of the Champion iron Stage2 block at BG??

[Mike Licht]

It is not a question of how many you would have to sell. It is a question of how many you would have to make. In todays market it would be well over 200 blocks in one shot to get the price down. That is about a 5 to 8 year supply of blocks, if you even sell that many ever. T/A has not made that many blocks yet. No business has the capitol to tie up for years on end before they even make a nickle profit. That is way that $2000 price will never happen, it would be nice and I understand that more guys would buy them but not enough guys would actually pony up the cash fast enough in the end to take that big of a risk.

 

[2QUIK6]

Wouldn't the availability of stock 109 blocks come into play somewhere here. If I throw a rod and crack my stock 109 block, I'd want to replace it with a 109 (me not being a heavy racer, but love to kill V8s on the street and at street night at the local track).
Now if 109's are sky high in price cause they are hard to find, I'd have no problem forking out $2500 for a Champion iron if the 109's are no where to be found...and that day will come sometime in the not to distant future I'd think.

Surely there's tons of others like me that are street players only as we all know there tons more turbo Buick street cars than there are hard core race cars.

 

[Quiky One]

Will these blocks be on center or off center? (whats the difference anyway?)

Will these blocks bolt up to the stock heads and intake?

Thanks Jason

 

[VinsGN]

Here’s an opinion from a “non-racer” Buick V6 lover……… it comes down price.

Should I need a new block I would weigh all options and pick the best bang for the buck. That might mean another 109, maybe a Champion or TA.

Bottom line is Buick crap is expensive be it trim, interior or engine.

I get tired with the constant price comparisons with other GM makes. One day, most likely, I will be priced out of the Buick land, but that’s the way it goes.

 

[SGRIM]

Mike's financial outlook on this is dead on accurate. I am sure it would take a$350-500K initial invest to get the cost down that cheap. You figure interest on that for a few years on top of other overhead and I feel sure that would result in a loss in the long run.

Far as N/A 109's, I feel comfortable running them. With the price of the new stroker kits and their potential can of hard to beat IMO:biggrin:

 

[jsta6]

eBay Motors: 3.8 Turbo 83-90 Buick Grand National (item 290111536438 end time May-03-07 16:41:39 PDT)

 

[1BADTT]

eBay Motors: 3.8 Turbo 83-90 Buick Grand National (item 290111536438 end time May-03-07 16:41:39 PDT)

As of March 2006, Rick Harper of FT. Lauderdale had 2 crate engines left out of 5 he had bought somewhere in Canada.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

With more guys going low 9's with the addition of the forged cranks ( stroker too ) and rods, the 109 block is doing pretty well right now for the market to need another aftermarket block to move onto IMO.

If Champion wants to build a block with more head bolts, resleevable cylinders and a head that flows over 300 out of the box, now we are talking and bring it on!!!

 

[turbobuick]

Dusty,
A good DART SBC block is $2400 from Summit not $2k. Most hardcore guys are not running the Bowtie stuff and I think the block TOm is building will be more in line with what a good DART block is and not what the cheaper Bowtie block is.

I think if Tom comes in under $3k he will have a winner. I know I would buy one at that price. Hell, people are buying used junk for $2k. Good used DART SBC blocks are still $1800. Eagle SBC cranks and rods aren't even as cheap as the Buick crank and rods Mike is selling. I am going through this with my friends SBC with a procharger. A good motor costs the same and it doesn't matter what it is SBC, Buick, BBC, BBB, BBO whatever, a good crank, rods, pistons, blocks will all cost around the same. The only difference is you can roll down to Summit and buy everything as opposed to having to search a little and make a few phone calls to find what you need for the Buick.

The new block will change that. At $3k for a block, and 3.625 recipicating assembly balanced is $1900 throw in another $500 for machining and assembly and you have a NEW 274" S2 short block for $5500, about the same if not cheaper than a DART or Motown SBC short would cost. A summit Motown 427 SBC is $4800. That is a deal especially for a specialty market like the Buicks.

Now, if Hardcore Buick racers had an organized point series to compete in at mulitple events with decent payouts and support maybe less guys would go to a V8? Now where can we find something like that HHHMMM.......:biggrin:

Norwalk is a week away for the start of the first TSO point series:biggrin: :biggrin:

 

[odell4o8]

Dusty,
A good DART SBC block is $2400 from Summit not $2k. Most hardcore guys are not running the Bowtie stuff and I think the block TOm is building will be more in line with what a good DART block is and not what the cheaper Bowtie block is.

I think if Tom comes in under $3k he will have a winner. I know I would buy one at that price. Hell, people are buying used junk for $2k. Good used DART SBC blocks are still $1800. Eagle SBC cranks and rods aren't even as cheap as the Buick crank and rods Mike is selling. I am going through this with my friends SBC with a procharger. A good motor costs the same and it doesn't matter what it is SBC, Buick, BBC, BBB, BBO whatever, a good crank, rods, pistons, blocks will all cost around the same. The only difference is you can roll down to Summit and buy everything as opposed to having to search a little and make a few phone calls to find what you need for the Buick.

The new block will change that. At $3k for a block, and 3.625 recipicating assembly balanced is $1900 throw in another $500 for machining and assembly and you have a NEW 274" S2 short block for $5500, about the same if not cheaper than a DART or Motown SBC short would cost. A summit Motown 427 SBC is $4800. That is a deal especially for a specialty market like the Buicks.

Now, if Hardcore Buick racers had an organized point series to compete in at mulitple events with decent payouts and support maybe less guys would go to a V8? Now where can we find something like that HHHMMM.......:biggrin:

Norwalk is a week away for the start of the first TSO point series:biggrin: :biggrin:

DR LYONS, there are still new or never used stage block floating around mike booher has two, i have one stage block that was bored to 3.900 never used, you are right there are serval used damaged blocks for sale , but what the hell i have three complete stage engines and one bare block and lots of broke parts, cong, on your runner up at the nats, see you at columbus, gotta make hay and repair my engine cant make norwork, good luck oc,

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Chris...I agree for the most part. The cost will be about the same for a 1200hp capable motor whether it's Buick or Chevy if you buy all the parts and do it locally. I can't say I'd trust the K1 stuff or whatever at that level, maybe 1000 at most. Somebody else can test it if they want. I'd never pay 3k for a block and then put the cheapest rotating assembly I could find in it. So for 1200hp you'd really want Crower rods and good crank in the Buick, A Chevy can get by with Eagle because of less stress on the parts. Just my opinion.

You can buy DART crate motors with Eagle rotating assemblies from a couple companies out there in the $3500-$4000 range. Guys are running mid 8's with that set-up. DART blocks can be found for 2k still, I gave $1800 for mine new in the box but the price has increased.

I'm all for seeing Champion move forward with this. There was a raw BMS block at the Nats for like 4k We hope to get in on a couple TSO races with Todd's car. The distance to the races effects us.

 

[Kip]

Mike, I love the cross dresser comment. I think it is the smartest thing I have ever heard you say. I am going to adopt it as I always refered to those cars as bastards before. I like the Buick V6 thing and tell guys all the time if you are going V8 sell me your TR and go find a low slong camaro and do it right.
Take care, Kip

 

[John Wilde]

Mike, I love the cross dresser comment. I think it is the smartest thing I have ever heard you say. I am going to adopt it as I always refered to those cars as bastards before. I like the Buick V6 thing and tell guys all the time if you are going V8 sell me your TR and go find a low slong camaro and do it right.
Take care, Kip

Kip,

It has been a long time since I have hear from you.
I can give you an address to mail your check to.
Let me know where you want the Black T Type and Stage II Motor shipped to.

 

[Kip]

John, Send me an email with all the details and we will see what we can work out. Remeber with everyone jumping ship it brings the value down on your stuff. I will be waiting.
See ya, Kip

 

[S2V6RACER]

Mike, I love the cross dresser comment. I think it is the smartest thing I have ever heard you say. I am going to adopt it as I always refered to those cars as bastards before. I like the Buick V6 thing and tell guys all the time if you are going V8 sell me your TR and go find a low slong camaro and do it right.
Take care, Kip

You are right Kip. I just about spit out my coffee reading that comment. Cross-Dresser, good one Mike.


See you guys in Norwalk.

Ted