Another Hot Air bitching thread!!!!

[kaj]

Kaj the main point is that there are close to 30k 86/87 TR's where as there are less than 10k 84/85's. That's a 3-1 ratio and by the time you buy an HA Car and convert it to IC you could have just bought an 86/87 in the first place and save the HA car for the people who enjoy them.

true. but, in my case, i got a really good deal on my '85. there were no 86-87s in that range, even factoring the $2kish i'll be putting into a conversion.

if anyone wants to trade me their '86 or '87 to have my semi-rare '85, i'm down. LOL i'll be keeping all stock parts, though. so if someone REALLY wanted to buy my car, they can have it in original condition. my car is 100% stock.

 

[MoeJr]

Is it cheaper to convert or throw an aftermarket IC on it like a spearco?

Mind if I ask how much you got the 85 for?

 

[kaj]

Is it cheaper to convert or throw an aftermarket IC on it like a spearco?

Mind if I ask how much you got the 85 for?

Assuming you are referring to my post:

I have yet to find a FMIC for an HA car. All I found is info that I can modify an '87 upper intake and fab my own IC pipe to fit the FMIC of my choice. Much cheaper than the $2000 to convert to '87 specs.
I paid $7000 for my '85 which included a bunch of extra GN and GNX parts.

 

[boostmaster]

Assuming you are referring to my post:

I have yet to find a FMIC for an HA car. All I found is info that I can modify an '87 upper intake and fab my own IC pipe to fit the FMIC of my choice. Much cheaper than the $2000 to convert to '87 specs.
I paid $7000 for my '85 which included a bunch of extra GN and GNX parts.

For 7G's in this economy you could have found a fairly decent 86-87 Turbo Regal. By the time you finish the conversion you will still be far behind in cost of a slightly modded intercooled car.

 

[kaj]

For 7G's in this economy you could have found a fairly decent 86-87 Turbo Regal. By the time you finish the conversion you will still be far behind in cost of a slightly modded intercooled car.

I am only shopping GNs

 

[MoeJr]

It is possible to find an 86/87 GN for around 7g's. If you take an 85 GN and 86 GN pay 7g for both and put 2k into both of them the 86 will be faster by a good amount. I would think 2k put into an 86/87 would get you close to 11's with traction.

 

[kaj]

It is possible to find an 86/87 GN for around 7g's. If you take an 85 GN and 86 GN pay 7g for both and put 2k into both of them the 86 will be faster by a good amount. I would think 2k put into an 86/87 would get you close to 11's with traction.

possibly. but i found no 86 nor 87 GNs for that price range that ran, had no rust, etc.
i did find an '85 in great shape that came with a bunch of extra parts i can sell and get my total $$$ invested down a bit. my only issue is the t-top. i REALLY wanted a hard top.. but this will do for now.

we work with what we're presented, not "what-if"s.

it seems everyone is trying to tell me how bad of a deal i got by buying an '85. i guess i'd expect different from the HA part of this forum. it's my car, so as long as i'm happy, all is well.

 

[84gnguy]

While I have an 87,I have a very soft spot for the 84-85 cars. Back in early 90's,my cousins friend/neighbor had a low mileage 85 GN and I just loved the car.Another friend had an 85 T-Type that ran mid 14's and that was impressive as all hell back in 1991-92.
Any turbo Buick....84-87 is alright in my book!! I also believe in leaving a hot air car a hot air car..I don't look down on someone if they upgrade to an IC set up..but personally I wouldn't.

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

possibly. but i found no 86 nor 87 GNs for that price range that ran, had no rust, etc.
i did find an '85 in great shape that came with a bunch of extra parts i can sell and get my total $$$ invested down a bit. my only issue is the t-top. i REALLY wanted a hard top.. but this will do for now.

we work with what we're presented, not "what-if"s.

it seems everyone is trying to tell me how bad of a deal i got by buying an '85. i guess i'd expect different from the HA part of this forum. it's my car, so as long as i'm happy, all is well.

KAJ- I bought my 85 for the same reason you did and paid $7000. Body work is just as expensive as engine work. Todays technology with methanol injection and/or E85 has minimized the value of an intercooler when looking for speed. Rule of thumb-intercooled cars cost more up front and are cheaper to make faster-Hot air cars are cheaper up front and cost more to make faster. You are going to pay either way. It all depends on what your goal is. Mine has always been a 13.5 quarter car. When tuned with my new motor it will be a high 12 car. The best part is that both IC and hot air cars all turn peoples heads when you drive around. My 2 cents. Brad

 

[Jerryl]

............ As it was my gripe that people, particularly the newbies, have this misconception that you must convert to intercooled to run fast.

........... the main issue with most hot air owners they think that 12's will just drop in their laps even after they convert to intercooled.

AGAIN, I agree 100%.

My advice for those who want to convert is; STOP thinking about converting until you get a handle on the current set-up and understand these cars. Pushing any of these cars will only amplify the smallest of issues, IC’d or not.

In other words, unless you figure out how to get the tune in the 11-13 psi boost range on 93 pump, without ANY KR, you will only get good at changing head gaskets, and pulling motors.

Don’t ever fall into the trap that adding an IC set-up will automatically result in a 11-12’s car because these numbers are not going to fall in your lap. Spend the time and money on tuning tools etc., before spending it on “look at my go fast” parts. :tongue:

To those who don't believe and have deep pockets;
Go try it. You may be the first one to sucesfully convert your car in a relatively cheap and easy way.

Good luck to whoever you are, and whatever you decide! :biggrin:

 

[kaj]

The best part is that both IC and hot air cars all turn peoples heads when you drive around. My 2 cents. Brad

i couldn't have said it any better myself.

 

[charlief1]

KAJ- I bought my 85 for the same reason you did and paid $7000. Body work is just as expensive as engine work. Todays technology with methanol injection and/or E85 has minimized the value of an intercooler when looking for speed. Rule of thumb-intercooled cars cost more up front and are cheaper to make faster-Hot air cars are cheaper up front and cost more to make faster. You are going to pay either way. It all depends on what your goal is. Mine has always been a 13.5 quarter car. When tuned with my new motor it will be a high 12 car. The best part is that both IC and hot air cars all turn peoples heads when you drive around. My 2 cents. Brad

Brad has a good point but I will add that any car can be made fast. The key here is research and knowledge. An injected HA or carbed car can do it but you have to understand the way the system works first.

Most of the IC guys have the same mentality. Buy it and bolt it on. This doesn't always work and I know Brad, Jerryl, and myself ahve seen the failures of people that are just going to do what everyone else has done.

AGAIN, I agree 100%.

My advice for those who want to convert is; STOP thinking about converting until you get a handle on the current set-up and understand these cars. Pushing any of these cars will only amplify the smallest of issues, IC’d or not.

In other words, unless you figure out how to get the tune in the 11-13 psi boost range on 93 pump, without ANY KR, you will only get good at changing head gaskets, and pulling motors.

Don’t ever fall into the trap that adding an IC set-up will automatically result in a 11-12’s car because these numbers are not going to fall in your lap. Spend the time and money on tuning tools etc., before spending it on “look at my go fast” parts. :tongue:

To those who don't believe and have deep pockets;
Go try it. You may be the first one to sucesfully convert your car in a relatively cheap and easy way.

Good luck to whoever you are, and whatever you decide! :biggrin:

Boy if that aint the truth. I've been on the board for several years and it took some time to get a handle on the technology of a HA car. If you do your research you'll find Jamie has gotten hers into the 10's already.:biggrin: I doubt that anyone can contest the fact that they can be fast if you're willing to do the research and the work.

Those of us that have done the research and are willing to do the work will in the end, get a car that will suprise an unsuspecting driver. To me, that's the point. Take a car that everyone has said it can't be done and do it in a mannor that has their jaws hanging down in disbelief.:biggrin:

 

[MoeJr]

I agree with Jerry's philosophy 100%. I have been around these cars for 20 years and worked on carbed hot air, sfi hot air and intercooled and they all respond to mods if you plan them out carefully.

I had an 87 GN that ran 12.3's at 110 and I loved it but I loved my 84 WH1 just as much.

Kaj I think Jerry's advice is wise in that you should learn your car as is before converting. U may be pleasantly surprised.

Just for info here is a link to a place that sells the spearco intercooler kit for the 84/85 HA's. http://www.forcedinductions.com/product4.htm

 

[kaj]

I decided against converting. Not needed for what I want to do. All I want is to clock my turbo and run a front mount. However I need to intercool the car.
Other than that, I have an '87 Ecu I can utilize later.

 

[MoeJr]

What are your performance goals for the car?

Here is an 85 on the dyno.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo5kDx1uxrw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzE2WcaBA60&feature=related

 

[boostmaster]

Dyno

What are your performance goals for the car?

Here is an 85 on the dyno.

YouTube - 1985 BUICK GRAND NATIONAL DYNO TUNING

YouTube - 1985 BUICK GRAND NATIONAL V6 TURBO DYNO TEST

No stats?!!!

 

[kaj]

What are your performance goals for the car?

Here is an 85 on the dyno.

YouTube - 1985 BUICK GRAND NATIONAL DYNO TUNING

YouTube - 1985 BUICK GRAND NATIONAL V6 TURBO DYNO TEST

right now, no goals. just gonna do the exhaust, an intercooler, and see where it's at. i'll then do bolt-ons.. fuel pump, injector.. chip.. MAF, blah blah. it will be an on-going project. i'd LIKE to have enough power to run 11s. once i have that, i'll stop on the power upgrades.

 

[Anarchy]

well my grand national is a hot air. and its the first real gn i ever owned. to tell you the truth i have guys putting me down all the time. oh its a ha. you cant get no power out of that. ic is the way to go. i asked my self the same question is my car worth it or should i switch over to ic. with not much options out there for our cars what are we to do. sure we can alky it up injectors and so forth. but still the ic guys still lol at us. i agree with the guy above he said our cars have lead the way to the grand national legacy and that's the truth. now with my ha. i have smoked vetts, killed mustangs, ate cobras alive, and yet still no love... from ic guys. no matter my car is what lead to the ic turbo. and i feel it commands respect when i drive it around town. truth is our cars are BLACK just like theirs. we are all turbo brothers. just some are ic and some are ha. nether the less our cars ha are disappearing as time goes buy with all the ic converts, but rest a sure our ha's will just go up in prices..

 

[MoeJr]

Boostmaster the car ended up at 281 rwhp. I am gonna email the guy and get the specifics.

 

[kaj]

Boostmaster the car ended up at 281 rwhp. I am gonna email the guy and get the specifics.

I think I may have to eventually convert. My Hondas put down more than that.