Alky vs Race Fuel ?

[Alky V6]

I'm talking about burning them at their individual optimum a/f ratios.
For you there is no comparison. Methanol wins hands down because of the limitation you built the motor around. You couldn't flow what you would need through those heads to make the power you are making with gas. You intentionally put those limitations on your engine. As your ability to make that car faster grew you chose not to change the heads. You decided to work around the limitations they presented and challenged yourself to make the car haul ass DESPITE of the heads. I tip my hat to a job well done. I was thoroughly impressed with you and your car. You certainly know that if someone with your skill set and resources had a budget that was the sum of what you have invested in your car were to build a Turbo Regal from scratch with the goal of 1/8th or 1/4 mile performance in mind that they would not face the same hurdles that you do. (I wonder if thats the longest sentence ever typed on a messageboard?)



The VE of an engine can exceed 100%. You chose to limit your engines ability to ingest and exhale fuel and gasses by using the M&A heads. I understand that and think that it adds a very unique aspect to your car that I can appreciate. That doesn't mean that every car is limited by those restrictions though.

There are a lot of blown alcohol burners in this country and combustion chamber space being a major concern is not one I've ever seen come up. VE will always stop you first.

 

[Nasty Wendy]

I should have said that VE can exceed 100% n NA engines. I never figured what happens to that number in Turbo engines. I'd expect that it would almost always exceed 100%. I'd also expect that the number gets higher by using a bigger exhaust turbine housing and even larger still using a blower instead of a turbo.

 

[Alky V6]

I should have said that VE can exceed 100% n NA engines. I never figured what happens to that number in Turbo engines. I'd expect that it would almost always exceed 100%. I'd also expect that the number gets higher by using a bigger exhaust turbine housing and even larger still using a blower instead of a turbo.

Last I checked, I'm at or a little above 300%.

 

[Nasty Wendy]

Thanks for the discussion.

 

[Alky V6]

Anytime.

 

[Alky V6]

A few more facts about methanol vs gasoline.
The stoichiometric specific energy of methanol is 3.08.
The stoichiometric specific energy of gasoline is 2.92.
The higher the number the better. At stoich methanol has a small edge on gasoline. Now here's the kicker.

Methanol makes maximum power at 4.0:1, which is 30 percent richer than the stoich value of 6.45:1.

Gasoline makes maximum power at an a/f ratio that is only 20 percent richer than the stoich value for gasoline. Gasoline at richer values burns inefficiently, black smoke, fouling plugs, hard to fire.

So, the potential to make power with methanol keeps increasing as you go richer, far past the point where you're forced to stop going richer with gasoline.

 

[bison]

Did you already forget I was burning pure methanol? Tisk, tisk.

Then you should crank it up and spank all those gasoline duds out there.

 

[bison]

I got some 110 for $6 gal at a gas station here in town. Bumped up the timing to25 deg and the boost to 25lbs and drop the alky to around 5 on the dial. The #s were 756 with 0.0 mv and it was ALOT faster with the 110 and alky. I hope to find a little something in the st. Tonight , Im sorry did I say st. I ment the track lol

Wait till you crank it up to 29-30psi and get a wideband device on there and lean it out a little. It will be even quicker. The correct volume of alky works better as an intercooler than any intercooler out there. There is an old thread from a couple years ago where i ran 110+alky and ran 10.29@ 133+ running 28.5psi. I later ran that same engine at 33psi for about 6 months before i cracked the #1 piston. Bottom end was is really good shape with minimal cap walk.

 

[bison]

So, the potential to make power with methanol keeps increasing as you go richer, far past the point where you're forced to stop going richer with gasoline.

Even more reason for you to crank it up and show all these junk gasoline powered engines whos really the king. 11.0:1 and 45psi. Come on let it hang out:biggrin:.

 

[Alky V6]

Then you should crank it up and spank all those gasoline duds out there.

I'm spanking my fair share. You should come out and watch some time. I'd be happy to host a visit if you decided to.

 

[Alky V6]

Even more reason for you to crank it up and show all these junk gasoline powered engines whos really the king. 11.0:1 and 45psi. Come on let it hang out:biggrin:.

I'll have to add to my fuel supply system for that. Right now, my supply limits me to about 28-30 psi boost. Once I get the launch squared away, it'll be time to work on the top end. You see,... I haven't really pushed the top end yet.

The mixture will be closer to 10.5:1 on the reading when I do start searching for the limits with the top end.

I hope you guys don't think that this engine has been maxed out on the top end all this time while I've been searching for a good launch. Even I don't know how much there still is to discover once I get a better fuel supply on this thing. Even though the engine is setup to go to 45 psi, strengthwise, I'm not so sure I'll get there with these heads.

 

[Nasty Wendy]

Even though the engine is setup to go to 45 psi, strengthwise, I'm not so sure I'll get there with these heads.

You should get to 45psi even quicker with those heads. Since they are a restriction they should help boost build in the intake. Now when you put some HEADS on there you will find it harder to get that 45psi....or rather 310.26 kpa.:smile:

Then again it probably won't ever be hard for a 91mm turbo to make 45psi in a 224 cu in engine.

 

[Alky V6]

You should get to 45psi even quicker with those heads. Since they are a restriction they should help boost build in the intake. Now when you put some HEADS on there you will find it harder to get that 45psi....or rather 310.26 kpa.:smile:

Then again it probably won't ever be hard for a 91mm turbo to make 45psi in a 224 cu in engine.

I'm not sure how it will end up working with these heads. My thinking for now is that the size of the exhaust valves may keep me from being able to supply enough exhaust flow to get this turbo up to speed enough to get me that much boost. kPa that is. :tongue: We'll see.

 

[bison]

You should get to 45psi even quicker with those heads. Since they are a restriction they should help boost build in the intake. Now when you put some HEADS on there you will find it harder to get that 45psi....or rather 310.26 kpa.:smile:

Then again it probably won't ever be hard for a 91mm turbo to make 45psi in a 224 cu in engine.

He wont find it hard to get to 45psi with any head ever made for these cars wit that turbo once he has the fuel available That turbo will move at least 40% more mass flow than he has utilized so far. Id bet it would be able to run at 60-70psi on the small engine if he wanted it to.

 

[bison]

My thinking for now is that the size of the exhaust valves may keep me from being able to supply enough exhaust flow to get this turbo up to speed enough to get me that much boost.

Maybe you better bump the compression ratio up and force that crap out of the cylinder. If that doesn twork leave the afterburner on for a few seconds till the engine gets over 6500rpm. I bet it will make the boost then if you keep the gate shut

 

[Alky V6]

Maybe you better bump the compression ratio up and force that crap out of the cylinder. If that doesn twork leave the afterburner on for a few seconds till the engine gets over 6500rpm. I bet it will make the boost then if you keep the gate shut

The CR is right for a 45 psi target.
The engine can build boost without the help of the nitrous surprisingly early on in the rpm climb. No need to wait for 6,500 rpm. More like 5,000 rpm. The afterburner just helps to get to that point faster.
Now the wastegate suggestion is one I plan to follow,... after the fueling is in place.

 

[moose]

Just for the record, im really WANDERING after all of that!!! Hahahahaha
Thank's for the help guy's.

 

[bigdwg03]

WOW thats a lot of good info but bottom line what fuel can you run more boost with? meth and pump gas or running straight race gas? keeping in mind we can dual nozzles for the meth injection

 

[jasjamz]

How much boost do you plan to run?

 

[bigdwg03]

as much as I can! lol Im just curious as to what the limits of the fuel is. If i can run 30+lbs on both then you mind as well run the alky cuz its a million times cheaper and you can drive the car on the street without going broke. Still just curious how much boost guys are running with either.