ALKY saves motor

[1owner]

I was at the BOP in Reynolds the other weekend tuning my new SMC kit [50/50 mix] for the first time. I added 10 gals of 100 octane unleaded [still had 3 gals. of 93] before I started playing. I was using my Red's 93 street chip, w/ no tcc lock up.
I made my first two passes at 18# of boost w/ 0 KR. My O2 numbers on the T-Link were real odd; going very very low, jumping around, not steady like it usually shows. Since I saw 0 KR i thought the O2 sensor was going bad. Only thing bad was me.
I had forgotten to reattach the vac/boost line to the fuel pressure regulator after setting initial fuel pressure. I made those first two passes at only 46# of fuel pressure. Seeing this, I was scared I had hurt the motor. After consulting with fellow club member Chuck Leeper [an old geezer with much more experience than me ] I pulled all the plugs and checked them, they were installed fresh the night before. I found no speckled shiny bits on them, but they did look like they got a little hot.
Alky saved the day. There might be damage internally but without a teardown I really don't know.
I did make two more passes with the vac/boost line attached. I gained 4 mph with no other changes [guess I was running kinda lean].
I met Razor for the first time at BOP. He's a stand up guy with great insight on alky. He has some interesting ideas and info. He told/showed me some things which has made me disappointed in my new SMC kit. This was the first tankful of alky run thru the kit and the pump has started to rust, not very quality in my book.
Considering I ran 12.5 @110 on 18# boost w/ a street chip I know alky is the way to go on the street. With some more tuning 11's should be possible!

Istvan
'86 GNAT orig. owner
'87 Regal "T" w/ turbo daily driver

 

[Razor]

It was great meeting you there as well. You ought to come down to the event in late Feb at Bradenton. And yes ..11's are within reach. No worries bout your motor..I have run 26 PSI and blown that FP hose off over a year ago mid pass..saw a bunch of KR and didnt hurt anything. I now have every rubber line zip tied under the hood.

Watch that Chuck Leeper guy

hehe

If I dont see you in Feb..definetely see you end of next year. I had a blast.

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Yep, I'm kinda dissapointed in my SMC kit too. I've had mine for 3 years and its worked perfectly the entire time. I can only run 23* of timing, 24 lbs of boost, pull 400+ hp, 545 tq on 93 octane. Why did I buy this kit?!?!

 

[BLACK6PACK]

I'm not knocking razor's stuff. Seems like he really has a handle on it, but he seems to pick apart the SMC stuff vocally. I didn't know he had a kit. I knew when I got the SMC kit I was a test rat, but its served my purposes rather well.

 

[Razor]

Originally posted by BLACK6PACK
I'm not knocking razor's stuff. Seems like he really has a handle on it, but he seems to pick apart the SMC stuff vocally. I didn't know he had a kit. I knew when I got the SMC kit I was a test rat, but its served my purposes rather well.

I dont pick it apart vocally. You will never find a post where I posted "The SMC kit is a xyz..."

To this board come people with issues looking for answers. To which I can only give truthful and honest answers. I may not be perfect, but look at my 1700+ posts and you will see a trend to which I feel makes me an asset to this board and community.

If your kit is working flawlessly. Thats great. tons of those kits out in the field working as advertised. All my posts related to the SMC kit have been to help keep them running. Or diagnose issues. If this is a bad thing.. sorry. Just trying to help.

Peace guys..maybe its better "My SMC doesnt work"..call Steve. And not offer any help.

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Sorry Razor, I didn't mean to slam you. You are a valuable asset to this board and I think everybody appreciates your input. The SMC kit may not be perfect, but Steve was the only person at the time to put together a plug and play kit that worked as advertised if not better. His customer service is second to none, and he continues to improve upon the kit.

I could screw up a trainwreck when it comes to working on these cars, so a DIY kit would have been a nightmare for me.

So Razor, what type of new toys do you have you developed for alky kits or that could be added to the SMC kit that I have.

 

[Razor]

No problem..

Couple things are in the works. I'm starting to work on a pressure sensing harness so it can use direct scan or turbo-link to monitor alcohol pressure. Kinda like the T-link Boost sensing harness. And will use the MAT input. Those that make recordings can then see and monitor that part of the car.. This is Jan 2004 planned.

Also working on the same concept for the factory indash boost lites..that way they can be put to use. Along with the TTA 0-20 PSI boost guage interface.

I like guages and watching stuff.. phase one locating methanol compatible pressure sender done..now I need to sit down and work the rest of the bugs.

Every product in the industry has evolution.. and things can only evolve if we keep pushing progress.. Cant wait for 2005 for changes.. I'll keep pushing as hard as I can..

9 second street driven GN on pump gas will become a reality..its coming.. just dont start holding your breath just yet

 

[scottyb]

alky saved your motor...

SMC saved my day.
I ran out of gas in a dead-stop traffic jam. Car would start and sputter, but would not accelerate. When I needed to accelerate, I mashed the alky prime button. I burned about a 1/3 gallon of alky, but I made it!

 

[wira4]

Do I still need an intercooler on my engine when I install the alkyl injection kit? I really like to do away with the intercooler.

 

[Razor]

Depends...alcohol can only do so much.. the bigger the IC the more effective it is. in other words the less heat it has to pull out of the charge air.

Big IC + alky = Great results..

No IC + alky = good

You will have to monitor your intake air temps to see. I'm guessing this is for a non-buick?

 

[wira4]

Will the use of alky/methanol/ethanol lead to premature/accelerated failure of diaphragms such as on MAP/boost sensor, wastegate, fuel pressure regulator, blow off valve, etc?

 

[Razor]

No

 

[wira4]

I will be running between 30psi and 40psi boost on my engine and I wonder if there is an alkyl Injection set up for such boost level, such as type of pressure pump, etc?

 

[Razor]

What kind of engine?

 

[wira4]

A Mitsubishi Eclispe.

 

[Razor]

I believe the problems you'll encounter are 1, getting a turbo that will be efficient at that boost range, 2, getting the fueling correct for that boost range,3, having charge air temps that are reduceable at that boost range. See if you run a really small turbo, it is possible to see 300 degrees intake air temps.. can alky injection reduce those to non-detonation temp levels..good question.

Remember the alcohol being injected is supplemental, its not replacing your fuel, well a little. And it is done before the throttle body to atomize with the intake air stream.

If the motor will run on C16 at that boost level, alcohol may/may not do the trick.

Your car there are plenty of aftermarket IC's for it. One of the nice things about alky is that it reduces charge air temps, and makes a small IC seem bigger than it is. At the same time burns. So its a win win.

I have no doubt the Shurflo pump will provide more alcohol than you will ever be able and handle. Question is will AI work at those PSI levels.. dunno.

BTW..where did you get the 4 bar MAP sensor to do your tuning, since you want to run past 30 PSI?

I'm starting on a DSM kit. The area next to the passenger strut tower makes a nice area for a reservoir. And the pump to be located where the factory IC was.

Good luck..

 

[1badTTA]

Razor, did you ever have any luck locating any 4bar MAP sensors?? LOL

40 psi and I would have valve cover marks on the bottom of my hood..............OUCH!!!

Edit: guess you haven't found any

wira4, do a search for Bruce, he has experimented with running no intercooler with Alky and had good results.

 

[wira4]

Originally posted by Razor
I believe the problems you'll encounter are 1, getting a turbo that will be efficient at that boost range,


>I have an IHI . I am currently running 30psi with it.

2, getting the fueling correct for that boost range,

>I have a Haltech ecu. My friend has run 45psi on his Nissan CA18det with it.


3, having charge air temps that are reduceable at that boost range.

>I think big and heavy 4" thick intercooler will help. But that is not I want. I would like to get rid of the intercooler and shorten the intake pipe to the throttle boy. Helps reducing turbo lag considerably and the turbo thrust bearing loves it.

See if you run a really small turbo, it is possible to see 300 degrees intake air temps.. can alky injection reduce those to non-detonation temp levels..good question.

>My friend running the 45psi and his big 4" thick IC sees about 135 deg F intake air temp on the Haltech display before the throttle body.

If the motor will run on C16 at that boost level, alcohol may/may not do the trick.

>Why doesn't the alcohol help? Does engine run cooler with C16 too?

I have no doubt the Shurflo pump will provide more alcohol than you will ever be able and handle.

>Does Shurflo have fuel pump made for gasoline with the same performance spec,i.e adjustable to 300psi?

BTW..where did you get the 4 bar MAP sensor to do your tuning, since you want to run past 30 PSI?

>We still use the 3 bar MAP sensor on the Haltech. But we would like to source for a 4 or 5 bar MAP sensor. 4 bar will be better as the ecu will be able to provide a better resolution than that of 5 bar.

I'm starting on a DSM kit. The area next to the passenger strut tower makes a nice area for a reservoir. And the pump to be located where the factory IC was.

Good luck..

 

[Razor]

wira4, I dont have experience in tuning with alcohol injection a non-intercooled motor running 30-40 PSI. All I can do is speculate. The theory is sound, but dont know if the practice will be the same. And I understand why you want to try it.

Per shurflo, theyre pumps are rated at 60 PSI. We have been turning them up way over 100 and in some cases 300.. but its not per their tech assist, designed to be operated at those levels. They have a line of pumps that have different seals so petroleum products like transmission fluids,oils, etc can be run. But I feel that gasoline is a no-no. That it will let you call and research


I havent found a 4 bar MAP sensor either

Let me know if I can help..

 

[JDEstill]

Razor,

I looked at your progressive controller a while back, looks nice. But it's not quite what I want...

I believe that the best way to control alky injection is progressive with rpm, not progressive with boost. I want a controller that will deliever twice as much alky at 6000 rpm as it does at 3000 rpm.

We've got that handy tach output wire hanging loose behind the alternator... any way you can modify your controller to do what I want?

John