Alky consumption under normal driving, ie no boost, need help diagnosing

[jcj53115]

I got another problem to add to the list this year, and boy is this list getting long, ANYHOW.

Last year I may have used a total of 5 gal. of alky, well I've had the car out this year for about 3 weeks and already used 5 gallons. Something didnt seem right so a few days ago i topped off the tank and just limped the car around town never getting into any boost.may have put a total of 50-60 miles on it. Well today the low alky light started flichering and sure enough its nearly empty. No theres no leaks in the tank, lines, ect.... And the nozzle is mounted higher then the tank. So its obviously using alky under normal driving conditions. So the ? is, what would cause this? Is there a check valve or something in the system that may have gone bad?

Thanks Justin

 

[Big_D]

The kit is designed to spray when the signal wire sees voltage from the map, unless you have an issue with the map signal, map power, or map ground I can't see why it'd be spraying. Where are you getting signal from? what type of map sensor are you using? Check the "test" button, may be it's stuck (long shot on that but I'm thinking)?

 

[jurassic five 7]

Here's a simple test.

Top the tank off again, UNPLUG THE MAP SENSOR then drive around. Then report back to us.

If the alky doesnt move, then the map sensor must be faulty and while cruising it's thinking you're under boost. (it can happen) If the sensor is faulty, call Julio. It'll be 75 bucks though to get a new one.

If it still drains, UNPLUG THE MOTOR ALSO.

Maybe the motor for some odd ball reason is constantly running but you can not hear it and doesnt set off any of the Spray-On light or Power Injection bulb.

If the alky does go down still after these two test, then you must have a leak somewhere that you can not pin point.


I'd say do the above and then report back to us.

-Adam

 

[Razor]

I'd look for any wetness around fittings, lines, pump, etc. If you run your hands on parts you can tell.

Small leaks wont show them selves on the ground, becuase methanol hits the ground and evaporates. But no matter where a leak is.. there will be some tell tale sign.

I have seen loose pump fittings cuase this as well. The pump could have decided to leak... nipple on tank fractured.. etc.

HTH

 

[jpratt]

Can you dye the alky, then you will be able to see a stain where the leak was after the alky evaps?

 

[Razor]

Actually for leak checking.. use water. It doesnt evaporate as easily and if it hits the ground.. you can tell. Wont harm pump or system.

Then just drain it by disconnecting line from nozzle and using the test button to drain it.

 

[jcj53115]

The kit is designed to spray when the signal wire sees voltage from the map, unless you have an issue with the map signal, map power, or map ground I can't see why it'd be spraying. Where are you getting signal from? what type of map sensor are you using? Check the "test" button, may be it's stuck (long shot on that but I'm thinking)?

Im getting signal at the map sensor per/ julio's instructions. Test button operates as it should. Light on dash goes green/red under boost, and test button bogs motor down.

Here's a simple test.

Top the tank off again, UNPLUG THE MAP SENSOR then drive around. Then report back to us.

If the alky doesnt move, then the map sensor must be faulty and while cruising it's thinking you're under boost. (it can happen) If the sensor is faulty, call Julio. It'll be 75 bucks though to get a new one.

If it still drains, UNPLUG THE MOTOR ALSO.

Maybe the motor for some odd ball reason is constantly running but you can not hear it and doesnt set off any of the Spray-On light or Power Injection bulb.

If the alky does go down still after these two test, then you must have a leak somewhere that you can not pin point.


I'd say do the above and then report back to us.

-Adam

If the motor were running wouldnt it constantly just bog down like hitting the test button? the map sensor is a 3 bar that was included with the kit and isn't very old. Also all reading on Tuner Pro ect. are perfect as far as the map goes, so this leads me away as if there was a power/ ground or signal problem the system wouldnt work at all.

I'd look for any wetness around fittings, lines, pump, etc. If you run your hands on parts you can tell.

Small leaks wont show them selves on the ground, becuase methanol hits the ground and evaporates. But no matter where a leak is.. there will be some tell tale sign.

I have seen loose pump fittings cuase this as well. The pump could have decided to leak... nipple on tank fractured.. etc.

HTH

I know i have no leaks and i say this because I parked the car about a week ago for a few days with a full tank of meth and when i started driving it again the tank was still full. It also sat all winter with a full tank and I had no meth loss then either.



With the amount it seems to be consuming it appears as tho while under vacumn its pulling meth from the tank. My nozzle is certianly mounted higher then the tank. The system functions perfectly aside from this issue. We know that meth can be drawn thru if the nozzle is mounted to low, but even if the nozzle is mounted high enough whats to stop the vac. from drawing in meth?

 

[Razor]

With the amount it seems to be consuming it appears as tho while under vacumn its pulling meth from the tank. My nozzle is certianly mounted higher then the tank. The system functions perfectly aside from this issue. We know that meth can be drawn thru if the nozzle is mounted to low, but even if the nozzle is mounted high enough whats to stop the vac. from drawing in meth?

Becuase there is no vacuum present in the up-pipe. There is vacuum past the throttlebody, not before. Think of this.. the exhuast is spinng the turbo as you drive.. the turbo is pushing air into the up-pipe as you drive. Unless you could get the turbo to spin backwards

The siphoning can only take place when the car is not running.

I would unplug the MAP sensor electrical and drive around. If there is no consumption.. then simply your getting into boost cuasing the consumption.

Stock turbo cars spool like lightning, so it is easy to be in boost.

 

[Razor]

There is a checkvalve I use on C5 systems. But thats becuase the nozzle sits level with the tank. Nozzle dribbles.. car runs rough when started.

 

[Madcat455]

I think he's asking about if the nozzle is aimed with the flow of air, couldn't the passing air create a low behind the nozzle sucking out the meth?

I think I had this problem with my old SMC kit. Alky would be fine sitting.. but it'd go quick if I got on it regardless if the pump came on or not, and my AF guage would act crazy until I shut off the engine.

Never had a chance to play with the nozzle position as I broke the crank 2 weeks ago

 

[jcj53115]

Becuase there is no vacuum present in the up-pipe. There is vacuum past the throttlebody, not before. Think of this.. the exhuast is spinng the turbo as you drive.. the turbo is pushing air into the up-pipe as you drive. Unless you could get the turbo to spin backwards

The siphoning can only take place when the car is not running.

I would unplug the MAP sensor electrical and drive around. If there is no consumption.. then simply your getting into boost cuasing the consumption.

Stock turbo cars spool like lightning, so it is easy to be in boost.

I understand what your saying here, as for getting into boost, i know im not as i only drive it in town and that 25-35mph tops and my turn on point is at 8lbs of boost. So i know for a fact that its not cuase im boosting it.

I think he's asking about if the nozzle is aimed with the flow of air, couldn't the passing air create a low behind the nozzle sucking out the meth?

I think I had this problem with my old SMC kit. Alky would be fine sitting.. but it'd go quick if I got on it regardless if the pump came on or not, and my AF guage would act crazy until I shut off the engine.

Never had a chance to play with the nozzle position as I broke the crank 2 weeks ago

This is exactly what i was trying to say but didnt word it so easily. thanks

 

[Madcat455]

Being as how I've never seen an alky nozzle, my description is wrong.

Looking at mine, it's flat inside the pipe spraying directly 90° into the flow. If the nozzle is located in a straight section of the pipe, I still think there can be some siphoning if the air speed is right... but not likley.

Looking at how mine is set up.. with it being on the inside of the curve, I can see where there would be a better chance of it happening.

I guess it'd depend on where your nozzle is located, worst case scenario... see if Julio will sell you the check valve.

Here's mine:

 

[Razor]

I understand what your saying here, as for getting into boost, i know im not as i only drive it in town and that 25-35mph tops and my turn on point is at 8lbs of boost. So i know for a fact that its not cuase im boosting it.
an easy

At 25 mph your engine is at 1000 RPM's. Thats enough to spin the turbo. Your not going to get a venturi effect.

Try disconnecting the MAP plug and see what happens.

Next test is to cap the line going to the nozzle.

If you want a check valve.. no problem. They're in stock. I just find it odd nobody else is having this issue. There have to be 1500 TR kits.