Aaron Thorpe's (Avon) performance at Cecil!
- Thread starter EightSecV6
- Start date
No, I wasn't even there.
Did you see me or my Buick anywhere?
I was there 2002-2004with Subarus and my Buick in 2001 and 2005. My car was at Cotton's and I was at work that sun.in 2006
I was happy to hear of a Buick winning.
I like Avon/Aaron, WTF?
I'm sure most top racers there were cheating some way or another. I have no idea.
I have a ton of stories about you and your work if you really want to start something.
It wasn't exactly a secret that car has a stage block. It's an old car.
That's like bringing a bazooka to a knife fight.
Thanks for being an azz
EightSecV6
MDBL
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2001
a simple "no" answer to my question would have been sufficient. I asked a question based on what Avon himself told me, no need to respond to me, take it up with him.
How is your TSM car doing? Heard a lot of BIG talk from you but nothing to show for it.
I think you'll see at least a .30 at 165 next year. I looked Teds car over real good and I think we can squeeze another couple tenths out of Avon's ride
That is an awesome ride guys.
Sorry Bill. Nice job on that engine. Takes a licking....keeps on ticking.
Every year a guy shows up with a stage blocked buick and gets disqualified or even booted out before the fun even starts. Same thing happened in 2005. I saw that grey T-type (Don't know who ownes it?) run some great passes, but it later was called an exibition run. Do you think I am the only one who could have done whatever you or Avon thinks I did? NO! The track is always full of well educated racers for that event. What reason would I possibly have for trying to get him disqualified? I have never entered the Pro class, and I hate Supras. I was very happy to see a Buick win and posted it on many boards with pride.
Yup, I have nothing. I'm working hard on my business to try to get some real money to play with you guys. I sold all my stuff and plan on trying again with a new car one day. I needed money to buy a very expensive CNC machine for my work. I am trying to develope a Yttrium stabilized Zirconium Oxide exhaust valve and valve retainers. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about, right? Imagine a material able to exceed almost 3000F and much lighter than any metal currntly used today for such an application. I'm trying to source a manufacture for the "blocks" of material that will fit into my machine. I mill the "ceramic-steel" oversized in a "green state", then sinter it in an oven that reached 1600C. It shrinks and becomes harder than a diamond! (too hard to mill in that state) It takes crazy math software to calculate the shrinkage factor. It will work, but I probable need help. Anybody down with this?
I work with this stuff everyday. We have to grind on it with diamonds under a water jet, and it still hardly cuts.
I own a 3M Lava Cad/Cam milling center. The first in VA, although there are two of us now. The name Lava comes from the insane heat the material is subjected to to become fully sintered. Um-k? Any questions? The material is currently around 1300mPa, but a better material with a little Alumina added is just around the corner and is expected to be over 6000mPa. Still containing Yttrium stabilized Zirconium oxide with nano-particles. Crack propogation is not a factor. amazing materials! self-healing.
Later
I am trying to develope a Yttrium stabilized Zirconium Oxide exhaust valve and valve retainers. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about, right? Imagine a material able to exceed almost 3000F and much lighter than any metal currntly used today for such an application. I'm trying to source a manufacture for the "blocks" of material that will fit into my machine. I mill the "ceramic-steel" oversized in a "green state", then sinter it in an oven that reached 1600C. It shrinks and becomes harder than a diamond! (too hard to mill in that state) It takes crazy math software to calculate the shrinkage factor. It will work, but I probable need help. Anybody down with this?
I work with this stuff everyday. We have to grind on it with diamonds under a water jet, and it still hardly cuts.
I own a 3M Lava Cad/Cam milling center. The first in VA, although there are two of us now. The name Lava comes from the insane heat the material is subjected to to become fully sintered. Um-k? Any questions? The material is currently around 1300mPa, but a better material with a little Alumina added is just around the corner and is expected to be over 6000mPa. Still containing Yttrium stabilized Zirconium oxide with nano-particles. Crack propogation is not a factor. amazing materials! self-healing.
Later
I know I'm going to regret further hijacking this thread, but what about the thermal conductivity and how does the tensile strength fall off with temperature? I bet that at constant egt your ceramic valve head is going to run a lot hotter than a metal valve due to poorer thermal conductivity, so how does the strength hold up at those temperatures? What about seat life?
EightSecV6
MDBL
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2001
I would scan your head with one of my digital scanners, accurate to 20 microns.
Parts get designed on a puter.
Milled in a 2000lb CNC machine with better accuracy than any human could possible reproduce with current machining tools.
Valves would be specifically made for each port. No error. No seat time involved. Air tight on the first go-round.
Head does not necessarly have to have symetricaly round ports...you could even make a swirly tulip shaped hole for better flow and valve would be milled to match...perfectly.
Material is similar to space shuttle tiles, but way stronger. Melting point is over 3000F! We would not even come close to softning the material in an engine. Go ahead and let the valve get as hot as you want. I expect higher usable RPMs with the lighter valve train. That's the plus. Weaker springs to hold up the lighter valves/retainers. Less friction/mo'power. Material feels like teflon. Very very low CTE (Coefficient of thermal expansion)
I'm sure we'll see this stuff in 5-10 years or maybe sooner if I can help it.
Carl, I dropped out of high school. Don't expect too much from me. I don't have time to look up whatever figures you need, but maybe try a google search?
Sorry.
TurboDiverArt
The Guru Thorn
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2002
I've got a masters degree in telecommunications from Polytechnic University in Brooklyn and I don't understand anything you guys are talking about... Avon and Ted going faster next year I do understand. I'll leave the engineering and assembly to people like Billy to figure out. I just hold the pedal to the floor and keep it off the wall....
Art.
Art.
Does the improvement justify the cost? What quantities are you aiming to produce, and how are you going to produce them if every piece is custom made? Do you have any materials engineering experience? Calculating % shrinkage of a green component that is not uniform in shape is a tricky task. Do you do any densification before sintering?
Yup, I have nothing. I'm working hard on my business to try to get some real money to play with you guys. I sold all my stuff and plan on trying again with a new car one day. I needed money to buy a very expensive CNC machine for my work. I am trying to develope a Yttrium stabilized Zirconium Oxide exhaust valve and valve retainers. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about, right? Imagine a material able to exceed almost 3000F and much lighter than any metal currntly used today for such an application. I'm trying to source a manufacture for the "blocks" of material that will fit into my machine. I mill the "ceramic-steel" oversized in a "green state", then sinter it in an oven that reached 1600C. It shrinks and becomes harder than a diamond! (too hard to mill in that state) It takes crazy math software to calculate the shrinkage factor. It will work, but I probable need help. Anybody down with this?
I work with this stuff everyday. We have to grind on it with diamonds under a water jet, and it still hardly cuts.
I own a 3M Lava Cad/Cam milling center. The first in VA, although there are two of us now. The name Lava comes from the insane heat the material is subjected to to become fully sintered. Um-k? Any questions? The material is currently around 1300mPa, but a better material with a little Alumina added is just around the corner and is expected to be over 6000mPa. Still containing Yttrium stabilized Zirconium oxide with nano-particles. Crack propogation is not a factor. amazing materials! self-healing.
Later
If you are looking for investors I hear there is a Venture Capitalist on the board named Otto with 2 or 3 grand burning a hole in his pocket from the recent sale of his car.
Each block I mill has the Specific density labeled on it in a bar code form.
The material gets packed into a tube around 3000Bar of pressure (dry powder at this point getting isostaticaly pressed). It looks like a big chunk of chalk. After every cut, a thin sample disk is taken and density is measured. We know the beginning and end density of each piece cut. (It is slightly denser at the top of the packing tube) Yes, this is tricky. But German Engineers have done most of the hard part for me. I have five computers, two scanners, two sintering ovens and a Mill. The software is pretty extensive to calculate the shrinkage (great question by the way. I asked the same thing) Total cost was around 1/2 million (ouch!). 3M has been sintering ceramics for almost 100years. I mill tiny wild shapes for the Dental field....they ALWAYS fit the application with extreme precision. This stuff replaces all metals, including Ti.
This stuff is also used for Hydrogen fuel cell storage and NucleaR power plant control rods.
Since I already own the equiptment, the cost for me is almost nothing, but I doubt any of you would ever consider buying this equiptment unless you had a real need for it. I guess each valve could be produced for under $200 (retail) and a valve retainer for around $75/each. Not cheap enough huh?
I would not be making any money in this project. Just a side thingy for the fun of it. I would also like to make a ceramic turbine way stronger than the past attempts, but my mill is only a four axis unit (for now at least) I need an upgrade to a five axis.
Have a nice day!
TurboDiverArt
The Guru Thorn
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2002
And here's another one that my masters degree does not help me to understand.... I think I want my money back!! :biggrin:
TurboDiverArt
The Guru Thorn
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2002
Now something I've heard about. I think I saw something on the Discovery Channel about pressing solid materials from powders. I still want my money back from my master’s degree.
I still want my money back from my master’s degree.
>>> You overpaid for your Masters from the Bahamas mail order college anyway, you have been faking it in corporate for all these years anyway.....for shame or should I say scam.
AND there goes the neighborhood!
No, Bill, I'm the one who is sorry, this was a thread about how awesome Avon's car ran at Cecil, not a thread in the tech forum. There's an old Usenet canard that goes: "Never send any post that begins with 'I know I shouldn't post this, but ...'", but I just couldn't help myself, sigh.
TurboDiverArt
The Guru Thorn
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2002
OK, anytime you want to compare grades, you just let me know my friend... :biggrin:
I'm thinking Bill is already making this stuff down in the shop and keeping a lid on it.