3.8 OR SLEEVED 4.1?

Flem469

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Joined
Jun 24, 2013
I am a fairly new member with an old problem. My name is Jeff, and I'm a Buick addict. I bought my 87 GN back this past summer after ten years(never should have attended the shootout at Reynolds). It's straight and solid with 68k miles, good paint and clean interior. The engine was rebuilt in its absence (not by a Buick guy). The slightly bigger than stock turbo needed building, so it came off. Full Throttle hooked me up with a new Precision 62/62 turbo, LS maf, translator, and alky kit and extender chip. The first time I owned the car, I installed GN1 aluminum heads, BGC stock mount intercooler and elbow on the 3.5" downpipe, 42.5 injectors and billet regulator, 65mm throttle body, ported stock dog house and Champion ported stock manifold. It blew a head gasket right after I got it back and going, so I installed Cometic gaskets, ported the exhaust housing and added RJC boost controller(to get boost under control), RJC power plate, hot wired the STOCK fuel pump(we'll get to that result directly) and turbo saver thank the Lord. Of course I replaced all vacuum lines, plugs, fuel filter, pcv, o2... Everything was perfect according to the scan master- ran great, idled perfectly, pulled STRONG and rode smoothly. It was all good until I lost the number two piston. Take your pick of reasons- slight ticking from one of the lifters on the stock replacement ft cam, loss of fuel from stock fuel pump(I know), or combination of all these and then some. Whatever, the block broke-I did it- its on me. NOW- I have talked to a few of you, and received good advice. I want thoughts on the rebuild from the rest of you... I bought a 484 casting 4.1 and tore it down, only to find its already .40 over. I also have a standard bore 109 block. Which ever way I go, I'm using an ALL forged rotating assembly(stroker or stock stroke) and billet caps- no girdle, and roller cam. I'm stock piling parts- have new 80lb injectors, Red's double in tank pump, Earl Browns front cover, etc. I'd like to be in the mid-high ten second range(dialed in with sticky tires and traction). I know there are other areas of concern when you get there- converter, tranny, rear end, suspension, etc.-that's in the works, but not the question. I am and have been doing the work, and assembly with the help of a good friend with a shop- machine work will be done by a BUICK specialist. What would YOU do? I have both blocks- sleeve the 4.1 back to standard(I can do this for $330 including labor), or call that a loss and build the 3.8? Stroker or stock stroke(I'm aware of the cost difference)? Before you beat me up about what happened, know that I am and have been selling things dear to me to finance the Black Hole. I'm also forty years old, and was NOT slinging fat chicks around when it came apart... Thank you for your patience and two cents- discuss!

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If it were mine, I would go with the 109 block. With the stroker. You are old enough to know better and you are still here--that is a good sign!
 
I would stroke the 4.1 if the budget allows for a crank and a set of sleeves.

Have you sonic tested the block yet? If the current bores are thick I can make you a set of forged .041" overs.
 
Earl I tanked it and magnafluxed it, but haven't sonic tested it. It was complete, but weathered- the bores MIGHT clean up...

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What's the safe limit on the thickness of the 4.1?

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Earl I tanked it and magnafluxed it, but haven't sonic tested it. It was complete, but weathered- the bores MIGHT clean up...

Do you have a way to sonic test it? And have you stuck a bore gauge in there to see how big the holes are where the top ring changes direction?
 
I don't, and I haven't. I was waiting to examine it as best I could before I paid to test it. Meanwhile, I got this standard 109 and a whole new set of options...

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I'm no guru but cubes equal power. Either should easily get you to the tens.
While I would save the 484 block(grease n bag it under the work bench), $330 sounds like a lot to sleeve it, gm ain't casting any more so that might not look like so much in the future. Hit the local wrecking yards. 4.1 blocks are out there, just have to locate n harvest them.
sounds like you will buy pistons no matter which you choose. But once you buy pistons it becomes expensive to go the other way. You might look for some used pistons and see which way that takes you.
 
The bigger bore also = valve unshrouding. That's why you see people often say there's no performance gain to O/S valves.... That extra room lets the intake breath easier.

Get a bore gauge in there and see how big the worst part of the worst hole is. .040" isn't the end of the world. All the people that take them right to 4" for ring selection go straight .035" over. That's only an extra 2.5thou of meat. For comparison, the hair on your forearm is .002" thick.
 
. ..................... I'd like to be in the mid-high ten second range(dialed in with sticky tires and traction). I know there are other areas of concern when you get there- converter, tranny, rear end, suspension, etc.-that's in the works,. Thank you for your patience and two cents- discuss!...........................

I would like to voice my opinion to help you meet your performance goals with the parts you have for you to be reliable, as well as keeping your budget in mind. :)

My first comment is that a local GN owner friend of mine has run has run a 10.90 with his unopened 109 engine and a 60mm turbo, so you do not need to get crazy with your build, and you should easily meet your goal with a 3.8 forged build, and the parts you are gathering.

One item you did not mention is the heads as they are the major factor is developing HP, the block just holds everything together.

Invest your $$$$ in a set of max ported iron heads, or for a few hundred more $$$ move up to a set of alum heads.

With the greatly increased air flow, especially with alum heads, you can easily meets your goals will less boost if you choose to go with the 3.8.
 
thanx, Nick- you missed where I said that I already had GN1 aluminum heads on it. Only had minimal damage, easily repairable...

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I am and have been doing the work, and assembly with the help of a good friend with a shop- machine work will be done by a BUICK specialist.

Why don't you ask your BUICK specialist that's doing the work what your best option is???

Is he special needs or really a Buick specialist???
 
Inches. That's what he said- I just wanted some opinions, as I value y'alls. I have(we all have) essentially four choices with the two production blocks. With the 4.1, there may be the added cost of sleeving. I bought it with that direction in mind- I then ended up with a standard bore 109 block for $200. The machinist is getting paid either way I go- the surrounding parts differ slightly. When you split one down the middle, it rattles your cage- even if you know why it happened. Then you hear the 4.1 is even weaker in the lifter valley...

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Crike

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Here's the biggest piece of #2

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Oil pan

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And...popcorn.

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