2004r or turbo 400?
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Pro-- cheap & very strong
Con--3 speed no overdrive, no locking converter, need to mod driveshaft, trans mount, and rear ratio (if you want to maintain the same 1st gear overall ratio)
trans brake setup is usually a reverse manual setup....in other words, you have to shift it manually all the time
400 is certainly the transmission of choice for all out race car or any car making lots of power (700 & up....)
not worth a damn on the street
very expensive to build a 200 to be as strong (if that is even possible)
Con--3 speed no overdrive, no locking converter, need to mod driveshaft, trans mount, and rear ratio (if you want to maintain the same 1st gear overall ratio)
trans brake setup is usually a reverse manual setup....in other words, you have to shift it manually all the time
400 is certainly the transmission of choice for all out race car or any car making lots of power (700 & up....)
not worth a damn on the street
very expensive to build a 200 to be as strong (if that is even possible)
Dont discount the low gear set which is available for the 400, it gives ratios in 1,2,3 which are similar to 200r4. Over $500 from tci. So drive your car in D and that would be a valid comparison.
Also 400 is more parasitic than tiny late model stuff too.
Anyone tried the 5 speed auto from FordJaquar?!
Also dont discount the od unit from FB enterprises rated at 750 hp. Based on Ford aod available at Poston's.
Also 400 is more parasitic than tiny late model stuff too.
Anyone tried the 5 speed auto from FordJaquar?!
Also dont discount the od unit from FB enterprises rated at 750 hp. Based on Ford aod available at Poston's.
How about a Turbo 350, that is what I did. They are cheap, plentiful, and a direct replacement. They can hold a lot of horsepower. You can reuse your driveshaft. I did get a crossmember from a Turbo 200 car. Other than that I reused everything from the Turbo 200r4. You have to move the crossmember up to the front set of mounting holes. I drive mine all over the place. You just can't play Speed Racer going down the highway. After all they did not have 4 speed automatics until the mid 80's. None of the 60's and 70's muscle cars had overdrive. And they were daily drivers.
People have always said I was losing more than a tenth by havbing a 400 - but knowing I can not break this thing make me feel more confident about 20# launches
As for the gearing difference,I don't belive it will matter much - I have managed several 1.57-1.58 60ft's(left wheel 4" in the air)with measly 3.08 rear gears on 26x11.5x16 ET Streets
My reason to use it - aside from the fact it is indestructable,which is good considering I drive my car to and from every track or show I go to - is that including the converter my trans cost less than $1500 for me to build.Thats for a full manual,reverse pattern valvebnody w/trans brake,raybestos blue clutches and kolene steels and Precision Vigilante converter.
My only gripe,not being able to lock the converter.I have come to the conclusion that Precision does not know how to properly build a non-lockup converter,as mine slips way too much.Originally we calculated it was slipping around 17% at the top of third,after sending it back and having them work on it(tighten)it was better but still slips around 13-14% in high gear which is almost double what it should be.I will be shopping for a new converter this winter though.
Steve
I had a similar choice to make for my project. I went with a TH400 for the following reasons:
The car will make somewhere in the 600-700HP range and (hopefully) running mid-high 10s so I'm gonna need the strength of a 400 - don't want passes where I'm lucky the tranny held up!
Eric @ Dynotech down here in Jersey also said that the gear ratio in first, despite the larger rotating mass of a 400, will help the car GAIN a few tenths?! (what d u guys think of this?)
The 400 is CHEAP to build. I built mine for about $600(less convtr) with race clutches and steels, shiftkit, 34elemnt sprague, bands, mechanical modulator, etc. You can have someone else do it shipped to your door for around a grand. For a similar strength 200, your looking easily over 2G - probably more like 3G. As for me, if I had the $$$, which i don't (going to college), I would have bought a sweet 200. I your car is going to be mostly race, though, do the 400.
The only thing that sux is that the car will be daily driven and the lack of OD and lockup is going to make my gas tab higher. Well we'll see when I get the car on the road how much I can grow to live with these losses.
My setup: TE61, Stretch cooler, Sheetmetal intake, 3"SS DP, 55/72#injs, ultrachp, portd/polishd iron heads, girdle , pistons, blah... will post ET's when car is ready 2go!
The car will make somewhere in the 600-700HP range and (hopefully) running mid-high 10s so I'm gonna need the strength of a 400 - don't want passes where I'm lucky the tranny held up!
Eric @ Dynotech down here in Jersey also said that the gear ratio in first, despite the larger rotating mass of a 400, will help the car GAIN a few tenths?! (what d u guys think of this?)
The 400 is CHEAP to build. I built mine for about $600(less convtr) with race clutches and steels, shiftkit, 34elemnt sprague, bands, mechanical modulator, etc. You can have someone else do it shipped to your door for around a grand. For a similar strength 200, your looking easily over 2G - probably more like 3G. As for me, if I had the $$$, which i don't
(going to college), I would have bought a sweet 200. I your car is going to be mostly race, though, do the 400. The only thing that sux is that the car will be daily driven and the lack of OD and lockup is going to make my gas tab higher. Well we'll see when I get the car on the road how much I can grow to live with these losses.
My setup: TE61, Stretch cooler, Sheetmetal intake, 3"SS DP, 55/72#injs, ultrachp, portd/polishd iron heads, girdle , pistons, blah... will post ET's when car is ready 2go!
My 0.02, weight, actually I think the 400 weighs the same or even a tad less than the 200r4. Gear ratio, IMO the taller 1st gear is probably desireable really in the higher torque cars to avoid wheelspin in 1st. I've found that it's not a devastating loss to not have OD either IMO. Mine tachs about 2750 at ~ 65 on level ground, with a 36-3800 stall Hughes converter, 28" tires, 3:42's. It's not a daily driver though, weekend warrior. Would probably be sweating even a fully built 200 at this level (274"). Not to mention half the cost, even with a brake. And rebuilds should be no big deal either.
JMO. I love the full manual, reverse pattern, floor ratchet shift setup.
TurboTR
JMO. I love the full manual, reverse pattern, floor ratchet shift setup.
TurboTR
SubZero350
To boost or not to boost
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- May 26, 2001
Given most trans shops are not up-to-date on the "new school" overdrives you would probably be better off with a TH350 or 400. Of coarse, these can be broken too. Too bad they don't offer the 4L80-E with a Buick bellhousing. I did, however, remember hearing about TH400's that came with overdrive units that bolted to the tailhousings used in chevy trucks before the 4L80-E came out. Perhaps this overdrive unit and valve body can be used on an earlier case?
A 2004r can be built to survive 9 second passes. It will cost you and it still may not be as durable as a 400; but you have to ask yourself how important it is to you to have a car that can go 9s and drive "comfortably" on the street.
Considering all that, you also have to ask yourself is gas going to get any cheaper over time? I doubt it. Besides, if you like to drive your car; the absence of overdrive will accelerate the wear on your engine unless you run a 3.08 or numberically lower rear gear.
Consider your choices carefully.
A 2004r can be built to survive 9 second passes. It will cost you and it still may not be as durable as a 400; but you have to ask yourself how important it is to you to have a car that can go 9s and drive "comfortably" on the street.
Considering all that, you also have to ask yourself is gas going to get any cheaper over time? I doubt it. Besides, if you like to drive your car; the absence of overdrive will accelerate the wear on your engine unless you run a 3.08 or numberically lower rear gear.
Consider your choices carefully.
Things have changed folks! You can have your cake and eat it too!
By that I mean you can have a 2004R that will handle the horsepower ya'll are talking about. 600? yes. 700? yes. Easilly.
Bruce Toelle (WE4) up in Northern Kalifornia can build such a trans with his billet parts, and I'd bet you couldn't break it. 750H.P.V6 has one in his LOW 10 second car. Plus there are many others around.
Pro's.
Virtually bullet proof
4 speed overdrive
will run a locking TC
can be had with an electronic trans brake (BAT brake)(forward/automatic) or if you prefer, the clunky manual brake (jeez I hated that thing).
wont break (oh ya, I already said that)
Con's.
$$$$
Get the right builder to put it together, like Bruce or Don Wang, and you can have a nice 2004R that'll take you into the 9's and wont be keeping you in the shop.
By that I mean you can have a 2004R that will handle the horsepower ya'll are talking about. 600? yes. 700? yes. Easilly.
Bruce Toelle (WE4) up in Northern Kalifornia can build such a trans with his billet parts, and I'd bet you couldn't break it. 750H.P.V6 has one in his LOW 10 second car. Plus there are many others around.
Pro's.
Virtually bullet proof
4 speed overdrive
will run a locking TC
can be had with an electronic trans brake (BAT brake)(forward/automatic) or if you prefer, the clunky manual brake (jeez I hated that thing).
wont break (oh ya, I already said that)
Con's.
$$$$
Get the right builder to put it together, like Bruce or Don Wang, and you can have a nice 2004R that'll take you into the 9's and wont be keeping you in the shop.
Have you heard of people bolting a chevy trans to a BOP engine, or visa versa.
I had a Coan race built TH400 I bought for my Camaro. When I decided to do this conversion I made sure I could bolt this tranny to this block. I payed 54 bucks to Jegs for a plate and it holds super strong!
I should be running some where around the range that you guys are talking about and I am not the least bit worried about it breaking.
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