200-4Rs and Transmission Builders: Behind the scenes

jakeshoe

Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
I've built quite a few 200-4Rs for members of the TurboBuick community, and even more for retrofit into other musclecars.

I've dealt with almost every vendor in the performance transmission industry at one time or another, either buying or selling parts.

The 200-4R is a niche market, it has expanded due to the retrofit aspect but it is still a relatively small market. Every knowledgeable builder knows who the other builders are and in the past many of us worked together even though we were somewhat competitors.

Several months ago I quit selling 200-4Rs. I did so for several reasons. One reason being I felt they needed to be road tested prior to shipment and the time it takes to build and road test was hard to justify compared to other units.
Another major reason was the popularity of my 4L80E transbrake and the associated increase in 4L80E sales.
The third reason was frustration.

I got frustrated with the supply chain for specialty billet parts for the 200-4R.

You order parts that take weeks to get, sometimes legimately, othertimes because they "shipped yesterday" then you see them 3 weeks later.
You have a deposit or payment on a fairly expensive transmission from a customer who is calling daily, multiple times daily, and the customer thinks you are scamming them, when in fact you are/have been "waiting on parts".

There are multiple vendors for most of these billet parts, so it's not a specific vendor but I've seen quality control issues from some vendors with parts not fitting due to spline cut, too much runout, and other problems not specific to 200-4R parts.

I refuse to assemble shyt.

So we quit building them.
I didn't want MY reputation tarnished by the market forces at play in the 200-4R industry. It appears I got out at a good time.
I can say there are other vendors who are contemplating the same decision.
 
This is a very interesting post and hopefully will open some people's eyes.


Take care, Kip
 
I sure hope this is an anomaly or temporary slump that will soon improve. There have been so many incredible advances made to this great little transmission and most of them can be directly attributed to the professionals who frequent this board.

It would be a damn shame to loose any of you guys, who are truly appreciated and respected by the silent majority.

Things happen, and most of us in this hobby who have some time under our belts understand that. Look how far you guys have brought this transmission. Somewhere, there must be hydramatic division engineers shaking their heads in disbelief. This is still a great transmission for alot of reasons. The 4L80E is a different animal and before I'd be forced to make the switch I'd go with a manual trans in my muscle cars.
 
The 4L80E is a different animal and before I'd be forced to make the switch I'd go with a manual trans in my muscle cars.

What kind of power you putting out with your car ??? that 4L80E is a mean tranny !!! Great for a street car with some power !! :cool:
 
WOW! I have to say that the parts I have bought off you Jake were totally top notch (Th350) and if you were producing 2004R parts, I would get them from you. You are by far the closest to me. I have not had any problems with any 200 billet parts and my units are still out there taking all that the owners are throwing at them. I guess I will watch what I have to put together in the future now. :(
 
The 4L80E is great, but the electronics and control requirements kill it for me. And I'm completely not interested in "manually shifting" an automatic either. At that point I may as well have a real manual trans.
 
This has been a problem for years now, not a slump or anything new.

A controller for the 4L80 is only $550.

A 4L80 is actually a cheaper option. $2550 for a trans and controller WITH transbrake shipped. It will actually work too!
 
One for all, all for one, and everyman for himself in TB land once again.
Enjoy it while it lasts suckers.

Kevin.
 
I've built quite a few 200-4Rs for members of the TurboBuick community, and even more for retrofit into other muscle cars.

I've dealt with almost every vendor in the performance transmission industry at one time or another, either buying or selling parts.

The 200-4R is a niche market, it has expanded due to the retrofit aspect but it is still a relatively small market. Every knowledgeable builder knows who the other builders are and in the past many of us worked together even though we were somewhat competitors.

Several months ago I quit selling 200-4Rs. I did so for several reasons. One reason being I felt they needed to be road tested prior to shipment and the time it takes to build and road test was hard to justify compared to other units.
Another major reason was the popularity of my 4L80E transbrake and the associated increase in 4L80E sales.
The third reason was frustration.

I got frustrated with the supply chain for specialty billet parts for the 200-4R.

You order parts that take weeks to get, sometimes legimately, othertimes because they "shipped yesterday" then you see them 3 weeks later.
You have a deposit or payment on a fairly expensive transmission from a customer who is calling daily, multiple times daily, and the customer thinks you are scamming them, when in fact you are/have been "waiting on parts".

There are multiple vendors for most of these billet parts, so it's not a specific vendor but I've seen quality control issues from some vendors with parts not fitting due to spline cut, too much runout, and other problems not specific to 200-4R parts.

I refuse to assemble sh!t.

So we quit building them.
I didn't want MY reputation tarnished by the market forces at play in the 200-4R industry. It appears I got out at a good time.
I can say there are other vendors who are contemplating the same decision.

I still hope you're willing to help me build mine Jake.:smile: Just no money right now.:redface: I did get a BRF core and have the KCF valve body at least though.:biggrin:

This has been a problem for years now, not a slump or anything new.

A controller for the 4L80 is only $550.

A 4L80 is actually a cheaper option. $2550 for a trans and controller WITH transbrake shipped. It will actually work too!

For me it's not right now. Glad to see you on the board again Jake. I hope you and the family have a merry Christmas and a happy New Year bud.:cool: I'll see if I can call you later next week and talk.:smile:
 
This is sad to hear as you did great work for me and are right in my backyard. I will look you up when the 200r4 gives out to weigh my options.
Keep up the good work.

Mike
 
It appears I built my trans at just the right time, before all this went down.

I built it on my own, and had problems, I even almost sent it to Jake since I couldn't figure it out, but with the help from people on this board we eventually got it worked out.

Since then I stop by time to time to so see what I can learn...

Instead Ive watched the small 2004r community crumble.

Comparing the forum now to a year ago, honestly I don't think someone will get the help that I got with a complicated problem. There is defiantly more complaining, fighting, and attacks. People are disappearing, People are refusing to help... "NO MORE TECH ADVISE"....

Waiting for parts, waiting for service, perhaps even a few bad parts getting through QC… I think they are doing the best they can, with minimal staff. It’s just something that we have to deal with in such a small market.

Bad trans/parts really does get voiced more than all the good parts/trans.

Unfortunately it all has caused people to give up. And to quit.

There are too few people who really know these transmissions, and even fewer who study them and make the billet stuff. What if these people follow along with you jake and quit. Where are we going to get parts? Help? where are the innovations going to come from? It seems like new things were still being developed for them. Eventually the 2004r will die, but this is too soon.

It is a shame.

I think the 2004r has plenty of advantages over any of the other overdrive automatics to justify supporting the trans in the market.



Every Man for himself is exactly right.
 
ROSSLER builds and supports the 200r4 market still. He makes alot of his own billet parts as well.

JUST CALL ROSSLER... I think he might know a thing or two about building a performance trans:rolleyes:
 
Jake, prices sure seem to have come down since I looked into a 4L80 a couple of years ago. The controller cost was a deal killer at the time as well as much ambiguity regarding size and tunnel interference.

What's the latest and greatest with the controllers as well as what are the tunnel/floorpan modifications (if any) needed for a 2nd gen Bird?

It would be nice to have "more trans" than I need vs. the other way around for "future growth".
 
Well I am not going to walk away from the 2004r transmission.I believe that I have the best calibration ever developed for the trans ,especially for third gear in high powered cars.There are many people here ,including builders that have accepted the 3rd gear corrections as the only choice for long term success rates with high powered cars.What has developed in this community is bitterness and jealousy and egos that cant be satisfied.I am not on this forum to send indirect or behind the scenes messages,just to deal with transmission issues.I have contributed lots of hard work generated tech to all for free and others have done the same.What we should do is get back to real meaning of the title of this forum,"Transmission Talk".This thread is a joke,if you dont want to build 2004r transmissions,dont.What is the purpose of the post?To blame all of your suppliers for not coming thru for you?Get real.
 
ROSSLER builds and supports the 200r4 market still. He makes alot of his own billet parts as well.

JUST CALL ROSSLER... I think he might know a thing or two about building a performance trans:rolleyes:

Not to take anything away from Carl but I'm not sure he is actually making his own billet parts. An input shaft wouldn't surprise me, and I'm sure he has the capability to do so, just I doubt he is doing it for low volume work.

Nothing wrong with a Sonnax or Superior servo that can't be fixed in 2 minutes on the lathe.
 
What has developed in this community is bitterness and jealousy and egos that cant be satisfied.I am not on this forum to send indirect or behind the scenes messages,just to deal with transmission issues.I have contributed lots of hard work generated tech to all for free and others have done the same.What we should do is get back to real meaning of the title of this forum,"Transmission Talk".This thread is a joke,if you dont want to build 2004r transmissions,dont.What is the purpose of the post?To blame all of your suppliers for not coming thru for you?Get real.

Hit a little close to home Chris?

The purpose of the post is to answer some of the people who have called and wanted to know why we no longer offer 200-4R's.

You are one of the suppliers I quit buying from. Not worth the headache.
Valve bodies that don't work. 4L80E and TH400.

I got tired of being lied to.

Do you even have a dyno?

Two TH400 transbrakes that caused the trans to bind up in 3rd at the same time. One you "tested 3 times and it worked perfect". I get it back here after the customer tried it AGAIN and it has an obvious crossleak at the shuttle valve.

Both units worked perfectly with a Griner, one worked fine with a stock VB before your junk.

How about those 200-4R speedo gears and governors that magically disappeared from the shipment of pump halves to you?
Were you too broke to pay for them so you lied to me?

200-4R input shafts that won't spline into your billet OD carrier, but that's normal.

TH400 Superdrums with the race having .100" of slop back and forth between the retainer and drum?
Is that normal too?

I have no ego to fulfill Chris. I've walked among giants in the game of life. I just won't build junk, I do have some pride in what I send out.

You're not the only supplier that I've gotten junk from, but you've probably lied to me more times than any other supplier. ****ty way to do business to someone who used to buy from you weekly.
 
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