2 18's in Regal!!!

[83 Cannon]

Yes I do want to play with the idea of 2 18 inch subs in the trunk...and yes I am a bass head! Mostly for shock value. I will have 5.25-6.25 +tweeter's in the front, 3's in the front dash, and plan on doing 6x9's in 4x10 slots (I guess). I bought a pre fab 2 18 box from a local store and it is made out of very dense MDF wood. Please excuse if I don't have the dimensions on hand. But each space will give about 5-6.0 cubic ft. of air space. The box is slanted back so the height is 16 inches...the width is @ 40 inches...and I'll have the other dimensions later.

But really...the box is too tall: the back of the trunk catches the top of the box and if the box is tilted back a smidge...the whole trunk lid catches the box lol. So I'll just put the current box in my suv and build another from scratch.

But now that I see 2 18's will fit in my trunk (with slight modification to the box and I can keep the factory spare), what are a few good amplifiers to use for the subs? I may use either Fi, RE, or Ma Audio (for low cost and experimental purposes).

I see amps now (Crossfire, U.S. Amps, Crescendo (which I still may try and buy; very good and versatile amplifier), etc.) say 1500, 2000, 3000 watts but do they reeeaaalllyyy give good performance?? Are they still as good as old school Autotek 333's, Punch 1000's (yes the chrome one's with the fan in the middle), Zapco's, Zues's, etc???

I just want a really good amplifier and a few other eq components for excellant seperation and dimension. I know the subs will be loud and very quad worthy. But I want to be able to turn them down when I want and just have a nice surround sound when playin Jill Scott, Eightball & MJG (Ridin High album Whatchagonnado, 30 Rocks orgasmic for subs!!!!, Hickory Dickory Dock), Avril Levinge, Jazzy Jeff, Jay, Ne-Yo, Brother's Johnson, Stevie, and just a plethera of superb artist!!! I may even do horns when I reach a level of blood I want to part with.

Thanks for the help...and don't worry...this is just an experiment. I will probably add three 12's in a trapezoid box or one of those shelf boxes everyone else has on here.

 

[Turbo-Archie]

I have been out of the loop for over 15 years but IMO you don't have the air needed to push 18's. Maybe one 18 but that system with the one 10" will sound better..



...

 

[83 Cannon]

Think so?

@ Archie...I mean true enough I may not have enough airspace but come on...6.0 cubic feet per MA Audio 18 isnt too bad. And plus, the box is damn dense for it to be pre-fab; just doesnt fit is all.
Ive seen recently on youtube a 79 Cutlass lowrider with a single Fi 18 sub in a box but the sub was facing up (ugh) but it sounded pretty good. But im not doing it to be all exact and precise. I know what options but again this is just a project; experiment i want to mess with. And plus, with it closing right ontop of the box and the waves just going to the side and not back over the top of the box will greatly help with less trunk rattle (ive seen this method work also with 2 15's in a 85 Cutlass powered by a Gen X Boltar).
Heck, Ive heard 3 12's in a 72 Caprice with an Autotek 333 that was unreal years ago. it didnt seem possible...lookingat that little box quake like that...smh.

 

[Turbo-Archie]

Maybe remove the rear seat and build a box there using the trunk air with 18' hitting your back.

Vacuum6 and I used to run around with a box sitting on the rear seat with 2 RF 15's. It hit hard on your back.

Drove my dad nuts seeing that box in the back seat. Used it in my '70 camero too.

Those were the days..

..

 

[83 Cannon]

Nope!

Come on now Archie...I'm not doing any cutting at all UNLESS! It's going to be a full on FUNCTIONAL build! And plus...?...okay let me tell you what I want:

I want the 18's for bass of course...but not just bass, but for just that low breathing quad; like when I want to play Bass Outlaws "Busted" cd and play the songs "Bass Gun" and Basszilla" when I want to. I want to play my Dungeon Family, Scarface, Too Short, Tibe Called Quest, Eightball & MJG, Jazzy Jeff, Steppenwolf, Jill Scott, Maxwell, Dwele (especially his first album!), and catch all of the super and under toning low's that are in the cd.

And to go with that bass, I want mid's and highs...TRUE MID'S AND HIGH'S!!! I don't want to put some thick ass tweeters on my front pillar with the wire crawling down to the dash, I want them flush mount and disguised with at least another 8 speakers...and even those speakers are not going to be in a console on the floor, the rear seat panels, or a rear deck full of 3-4 way speakers that only play highs and that's it. I want everything to be seperated and smooth like this:Lexus LS - Features & Pricing - Interior (Mark Levinson)

Even if I don't want to play the subs, and just play the mids & highs I can. Sort of like in the Chrysler 300 & 300C Sedans. So I know I have alot of work in front of me.

Speaking of which, what's a good sound processor I can get for seperation? I thought about buying a HIfonics Zues (That 5-6+1 channel amplifier they make) to go with the 3-12 set-up I may do later.

Audio Control is really calling me right now. So now do you see the depth of what I'm trying to do? I promise myself I would work on my mids & highs first and just add the subs later.

 

[83 Cannon]

I even saw that HzEmall Customs Buick Regal that was put together with the Chip Foose Arc Audio edition amps and subs: HzEmall Customs Buick Regal shop demo vehicle with ARC Audio Foose Series system. |

But I don't want it to just look good...I want it to breath and reach lows you have to get into a submarine for. A few reference songs...Eightball & MJG Ridin High Album "30 Rocks" "Whatchagonnado" (!!!)...Jazzy Jeff The Magnificent "Touch Me With Your Handz"...Jill Scott "My Love" "Epiphany"...Paul Wall "Internet Going Nutz" (A real system tester)...and just a host of others!!!

 

[83 Cannon]

Hey, does anyone know if I can take off the rear interior panels and maybe make them into speaker pods (maybe with a port sort of like how computer speakers are made but with a small port on the front being as though the speaker will face out into the cabin) and have them flush; with maybe like a camaflouge screen and the speaker will be behind it. Figure the upper rear interior quarter panel can be Dynamated just so the speaker can have SOMETHING to reverberate off of for some kind of mid-bass sound.

Would like to run 3.5 in front, 5.25-6.5+tweeter in kick panels, 4x10's (maybe 6x9's), and hopefully I can put speakers in the upper rear interior panels also for a good surround sound...damnit I gotta have it folks.

 

[jasjamz]

Make your live a lot simpler and get two L7 15' and a Punch 800a2, MTX 1501D/8100D, or two Memphis ST 1000D's. Tow Knetic batteries and an Epicenter, That in a Regal is all the bass one will be able to use.

 

[83 Cannon]

Damnit Jasjamz, I know I could do that all day long. But I really want to do something different. I've got 3 hungry Audiophonic (ADF-272) 12 inch subs that I had planned on using on an MX 1500.1 (want a Fosgate or Crescendo (their first gold amp) mainly for constant power and versatile wiring capabilities) with a 200 amp alt. I just have to make sure my wiring is all correct first tho; I may let the whoever I get to hook it up do that tho...egh.

But like I said, I want to do something different. I may even use a port going through my backseat...and before you asses say anything...I HAVE SEEN, HEARD, AND FELT THIS SET-UP AND IT WOOOORRRKKKSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Green Regal, 2 single voicecoil Kicker 15's, amp unknown (maybe Route 66, Autotek 333 (un-regulated amplifier), something strong tho' this is @ 1992-1996, 300 amp alternator, and an Audio Control Epicenter, box made of hard wood other than MDF...Birch I think, and box took up almost all trunk AND FACING FORWARD!!!!!!!!!! This guy used to always play Brandy "I want to be down" and Immature "I will Never Lie"...sweet hamhocks of happyville that thing use to beat! When your in front of the grocery store and you shake the rafters in the meat department?????? AND ON LOW?????? Come on man! Why wouldnt I want to use 18's? Not to achieve that verbatim...but o just have that different sound of weight and heavy bear breath comig out of my car; not overbarring and annoying but still smooth and flowing. And with today's technology it COULD be better or maybe just overkill.

 

[Nasty Wendy]

My last 'BIG' system used two Cerwin Vega Stroker 18s with an Epicenter and let me tell you that it didn't miss a single note. I understand what 83 is trying to do. 18s move enough air to make the lowest notes audible/feel-able without any extra processor help. They are awesome in that respect. However they aren't needed with the advances that have been made in today's speakers. You can get ultra-low frequency response from smaller speakers now-a-days. Using 18s to do it is an 'Old School' approach.....I like it. If you are just trying to be 'Old School' with your subs then by all means try to shoehorn a box for two 18s in the trunk and tune the port for 30hz. As 'Old School' as I am, I will be adding a fairly high-tech sub to my system at some point. I don't think I will hold to the 'Old School' ways when it comes time to share my trunk with a subwoofer.........I still have that Epicenter.


You won't be the first to send a port through the backseat of a Regal. I've done that before and it does work.....until someone sits there and covers the port opening with their back.

 

[83 Cannon]

Hey Wendy, Im on the way to your house with some Magnum XL's (or Exctasy's cause they fit about the same...trust me) and some chico stix because I love you...lol.

But goodness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some Cerwin Vega's??????????????????? Lawd!!!! I KNOW that was bumpin...but your right. When you think about it (especially saying the name Cerwin Vega) it is sort of over kill. BUT...I just want that feel of extra weight in my music.

I bought a pre-fab dual 18 box (like I mentioned before in my first write-up) and it's 16 inches high because the 18's have to lean back to fit. I would like for the box to be about maybe 1.5-2.0 inches shorter and not only would I have enough room to fit the subs...but I would have enough room for my spare tire (doughnut of course) and maybe even a bag of Soft Batch chocolate chip cookies.

Yeah I can get a bit high-teck myself...but paying $1800 dollars per voicecoil on a sub ain't my cup of tea. I kinda hate squares; so a nice set of round Fosgates, DD's, or maybe even some Fi's would fit in my trunk quite well. I want to (I also talked about this before) add a few AudioControl pieces to my system. Mixing and matching is possible of course...but what company could I go with that makes a decent and clear speaker/ component set. Again: 3.5's in front dash, 5.25-6.25+ tweeter in kick panels, 4x10's (or healthy 6x9's to replace) and maybe a nice component set in that rear upper quarter panel behind the rear side window (if I can make it to house a speaker of course) for hopefully a true surround sound. I don't want to add too many tweeters because I want more of a warm vocal sound coming from my speakers.

So I would like to add a nice proccessor to have (did I spell that right?) so that all of the speakers have their own designated job to do. Instead of going full out custom to drill holes or add tacky pods in the doors to hold 25 tweeters that will make my ears bleed...I want to use more of the hidden and unoticed parts of the car to do sort of a "Mark Levinson/ Lexus" sound set-up.

Saw a 7-channel Autotek on Ebay (1089 watts/ $499) but a bit too much for my taste as of right now. Who else could I go with as far as 6-channel amplifier for my set-up?

Your thoughts??

 

[Nasty Wendy]

Don't hold your breath because this won't be anytime really soon but when I do decide to really 'DO-UP' my system its going to be with 'OLD SCHOOL' MB-Quart components. The hard part about doing a system right in a regal is to get the sound stage up front where it should be. I have a set of the kickpanel pods that house a tweeter and 6.5" speaker. I'm going to use those along with Concert Sound lower door panels to house a set of MB-Quart 3 way components. It will have the 4" Midrange speaker mounted in the concert sound panels and the tweeter and 6.5" speakers will mount in the kickpanel.

Thats all the sound you will ever need up front. The MB-Quart 3 way passive crossovers are very nice and keep everything clean. In the rear deck I will have a MB-Quart 2 way system comprised of a Tweeter and either a 4" or 5" mid. This will be powered by a 4 channel amp so that I can keep my front/rear fading. My sub box will be a single bandpass design housing a pair of HiVi 10" subwoofers.

These are the same subs used in the Bob Carver 'Sunfire' True-Sub home subwoofer. That unit responds down to 18hz. I have one in my home and it will make the neighbors hate you. The box will sit completely on the 'shelf' of the trunk leaving enough room to still put the T-Tops in. The spare tire area will not be affected, infact the only space I'll lose is the actual front shelf of the trunk. The port of the bandpass sub-box will fire up through a cut-out in the rear package tray. The entire package tray will be recovered with matching grey grille cloth to conceal the cut-out for the port to fire through. The signal processing will be handled by an Audio Control EQX, an Audio Control ESPII, and an Audio Control Epicenter. I'm waffling on what amps to use but I know that it will be either my 'Old School' Orions or my 'Old School' Monolithics.
I really don't care to hit 18hz with this system but I know that subs can sustain it. It will look as good as it will sound.....and to me that means NOTHING will stick out and be noticeable or say 'HEY LOOK AT ME'.

I already own all the components needed to build this system so I'm pretty dang sure that it will come together just as I have said.

 

[83 Cannon]

Minus the huge subs I'll be using because I may (for right now anyway) just use 3 12's in a nice sealed box because here's my situation...Of course the box I want to use is just too damn big. I can of course have it modified or just have another built. This is the pre-fab box I told everyone about earlier. It's funny because the bottom of the box is just too deep for the trunk. It hits the trunk latch and the slope on the hump in the back. So a new one will be in effect; I'll just use the box for my SUV. View attachment 143851View attachment 143852View attachment 143853View attachment 143854View attachment 143855
The last pic is a carwash brush that's about 2-3 inches wide...so that's about the size of the gap that's up underneath the box. I believe if it sat flush on the floor and an inch was shaved off the top for clearance, it would fit. But again, I'll just have one built.

See folks the reason I'm doing this is because Im sick of reading about what people have and I never see them. It's frustrating to not see and not be able to plan for your own vehicle so that's one of the reasons why I'm doing this project. And then on top of that, I'm just bored with the car audio world for a minute and want to do something different.

 

[83 Cannon]

Well even tho alot of my bass will come from the rear anyway, "I" would feel better if I had vocals coming from the rear. I want to do this because there will be times I'm not going to have subs on and just want to play the mid's and highs; especially on those long drives when the climate is just calm and cool.

So Wendy (Nasty if you prefer), your set-up will give you enough vocals without having too much tweet and loud ear ringing noise?? That's my main concern; and big kudos to you because now alot of the MB Quarts are super cheap and can be easily obtained.

My Regal is just limited so I don't have the Concert Sound II pods. I know I can add them but don't want to mess up the originality of the door. May just use some velcro or something...lol jk. But I do want to do something similar to your set-up. Just as long as I get those vocals, soft bump from the mids, and even a bit of low volume; deep mild bass from the whole mid set-up. Sort of like how the early short 4-door Cadillac Bose systems use to be. They caught EVERYTHING!!! BUt Wendy, I still want a rear fill...I just like when I ride in a few of my friends sedans and I think someone is in the backseat with a tamborine or cow bell (lol) cause that's what I need..."I NEED MORE COW BELL BABY..." LMAO, noone remembers that from SNL?...When Christopher Walken was a music...Will Ferrell had a Cow Bell and...there was a band and everything...:redface: Okay I thought it was funny.

But just as Im writing this, I'm listening to an old Scarface song called "F*ck Faces". I LOOOVVEE the underlining bass note that comes in late and subtle. You hear an initial bass note then a slight growl under everything...I have so many other songs like this and I also like to play alot of elevator music (Like stuff from when the Blues Brothers were standing in that elevator...*...) and love to catch alot of tones and notes that are normally missed. So Wendy, will the Audio Control units that your going to use satisfy my taste of what I'm looking for?? They make so many excellent products to use!!

 

[83 Cannon]

Since I have everyone's attention...what size are the bolts that holds the headlight bezel's in place??
View attachment 143862View attachment 143863View attachment 143864View attachment 143865

 

[Nasty Wendy]

Don't worry about the size of the headlight bezel fasteners. Your going to blow them the fock out of there anyway once you power up those 18s.

MB Quarts use to be as high as a Giraffe's ass. I don't know if the quality of the product has come down along with the price but the original price tag on the ones that I have reads "Your First Born Son". Your questions about how my system will balance can be answered quite simply. I will be able to do what ever I want with it from obscene lows to AM talk radio. There will be nothing that it won't accel at. Listening to an improperly balanced/eq'd system annoys the shidt out of me. I'd rather turn it off and sing songs I hate. My system won't be built to annoy me.

 

[83 Cannon]

So Monolithics are that "Grown Man" (as we say here in Georgia when something is powerful or good) when it comes to amps huh? I'm still stuck on Orion 2150's, Punch 1000's, Hifonics Goliath's, Lanzar (Old school of course), Autotek 333's, anything Zed Audio, Anything unregulated that you can put 300 amp alternator on, etc.

Thanks for telling me Wendy...damn woman, I've been looking for this exact piece for my music. That ESP II is just what I've been looking for to match my "wow effect" on my Windows Media Player for spatial seperation and an excellent surround sound. MUAH MUAH MUAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oldschool audiocontrol ESP-3 - DIYMA.com - Scientific Car Audio - Truth in Sound Quality

So what's the deal with those Monolithic amplifiers? Are they that great or what? I know that the company is good but Im just skeptical about alot of these new company's and even the old one's because this internet (and the economy) has merged and sold and mixed up everyhting. I feel like I did time and came out and couldn't recognize anything anymore.

 

[GlockandRoll]

I've been in the car audio scene at the pro and recreational levels off and on for more than 25 years. The G-body is particularly challenging to get huge deep bass into from the trunk to the passenger area, and there are several theories as to why. I dont care for high SPL becuase I'm into SQ (sound quality), but if I were trying to really put some high pressure into the cab I would build a 2 chambered push-pull isobaric dual ported band-pass enclousure and have each port go into the 4x10 cutout into the car. Other options would be to completely seal the trunk off and use a pair of 15"s in an aperiodic application firing directly into the back seat... however after having experimented w/AP setups before I can tell you they aren't for even most pro-installers. I've done 4 12"s in one for a customer, but it sounded like crap and he had zero trunk and we added a LOT of weight to the car.

 

[Nasty Wendy]

So Monolithics are that "Grown Man" (as we say here in Georgia when something is powerful or good) when it comes to amps huh? I'm still stuck on Orion 2150's, Punch 1000's, Hifonics Goliath's, Lanzar (Old school of course), Autotek 333's, anything Zed Audio, Anything unregulated that you can put 300 amp alternator on, etc.

Thanks for telling me Wendy...damn woman, I've been looking for this exact piece for my music. That ESP II is just what I've been looking for to match my "wow effect" on my Windows Media Player for spatial seperation and an excellent surround sound. MUAH MUAH MUAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oldschool audiocontrol ESP-3 - DIYMA.com - Scientific Car Audio - Truth in Sound Quality

So what's the deal with those Monolithic amplifiers? Are they that great or what? I know that the company is good but Im just skeptical about alot of these new company's and even the old one's because this internet (and the economy) has merged and sold and mixed up everyhting. I feel like I did time and came out and couldn't recognize anything anymore.

The link you provided is in reference to an ESP-3. I'll be using the ESP-2. You have to incorporate a front center channel for the ESP-3.....needless to say I'm not going to be putting a center set of components in my dash. The 'Old School' era went through a phase where adding a center channel was all the hype. It was the answer to finally aquiring the proper 'staging'. What it really was was a bandaid fix to improper speaker placement. With proper placement of the left and right components your staging will be there without the bandaid. The ESP-2 uses delays and reverberation-like effects to enhance the 'spacial' aspect of the music. You really need to experience it to understand it. One of the problems with reproducing music in a car is making it sound like its coming from an area bigger than the car's interior. How many concerts have you been to where the band set up on a stage the width of the distance between your car's front speakers? Proper reproduction of the sound in the car should come as close to sounding like the band is on an actual stage as possible which means that you have to figure out how to make the cars speakers sound like they are out in front of you reproducing sounds that span the width of an actual stage.

The Monolithic amps. I have always been a fan of Orion and they are still to this day one of my all time favorites. Now with that said understand that they are the reference by which I measure amps. The Monolithics are the shiznit. I hold the Monolithic PA5000 as the single most impressive amplifier that I've ever owned or tested. Todays systems incorportate the big Capacitors to store voltage so that the system can see full voltage even when the car's charging system can't keep up. They are a 12volt power reserve so to speak. The Monolithic PA5000 has so much internal capacitance that if you pull the fuse or trip its breaker while its playing it will hit HARD DEEP bass notes for about 2 seconds after power is removed!!! Like the Orion it has an unregulated power supply. I see that as a feature. Lots of amplifiers list a 'regulated power supply' as a feature but to me this only means that they have imposed a ceiling on the power they will produce. The unregulated power supply makes the amp succeptable to the danger of starving them for voltage which is the quickest way to kill one. The reward for that risk is never hearing your amp 'clip'. You have to design your charging system to deliver the necessary amprage to feed your amplifiers. The internal capacitance of the Monolithics makes them much more forgiving than the Orions are when voltage drops. I've run the PA5000 as low as 2Ω bridged and they handled it no sweat. These amps are one of the pieces I'd bring back with me if I could travel back through 'Old School' car audio time.

I've been in the car audio scene at the pro and recreational levels off and on for more than 25 years. The G-body is particularly challenging to get huge deep bass into from the trunk to the passenger area, and there are several theories as to why. I dont care for high SPL becuase I'm into SQ (sound quality), but if I were trying to really put some high pressure into the cab I would build a 2 chambered push-pull isobaric dual ported band-pass enclousure and have each port go into the 4x10 cutout into the car. Other options would be to completely seal the trunk off and use a pair of 15"s in an aperiodic application firing directly into the back seat... however after having experimented w/AP setups before I can tell you they aren't for even most pro-installers. I've done 4 12"s in one for a customer, but it sounded like crap and he had zero trunk and we added a LOT of weight to the car.

View attachment 143881

IMO aperiodic if for when using some sort of a box is IMPOSSIBLE.

I figure I can get about 3.5ish feet³ (internal) out of the shelf area of the trunk. I thought about doing a single bandpass isobaric but I've decided not to iso load the subs unless I fall short of box volume. I prefer the single bandpass boxes' powerhandling over the duals. Funny thing is that I prefer tuned ported boxes over sealed boxes which means that I should prefer the dual bandpass over the single. Problem is that when you blow a speaker you don't just unscrew the speaker and replace with another. You have to partially disassemble the box to get to the speaker. Screw that PIA. I'd rather make the speaker less susceptable to being blown by using the single bandpass. Your design idea of iso loading a dual bandpass enclosure would make me afraid of cranking up the volume for the fear of the immense amount of work needed to replace a blown speaker(s) in an application like that. I bet it would sound good though.

 

[GlockandRoll]

IMO aperiodic if for when using some sort of a box is IMPOSSIBLE.

I figure I can get about 3.5ish feet³ (internal) out of the shelf area of the trunk. I thought about doing a single bandpass isobaric but I've decided not to iso load the subs unless I fall short of box volume. I prefer the single bandpass boxes' powerhandling over the duals. Funny thing is that I prefer tuned ported boxes over sealed boxes which means that I should prefer the dual bandpass over the single. Problem is that when you blow a speaker you don't just unscrew the speaker and replace with another. You have to partially disassemble the box to get to the speaker. Screw that PIA. I'd rather make the speaker less susceptable to being blown by using the single bandpass. Your design idea of iso loading a dual bandpass enclosure would make me afraid of cranking up the volume for the fear of the immense amount of work needed to replace a blown speaker(s) in an application like that. I bet it would sound good though.

We've done very high SPL w/AP also, but that's not the reason you do it.. you do it for sound-quality, not to save space. They problem is, they are INCREDIBLY difficult to tune. The bandpass could be made extremely reliable and a push-pull isobarik system is going to be MUCH more reliable and durable than a single woofer.

But, go ahead and try it your way, you will come to the same conclusion that hundreds of audio professionals have come to. I run a polk audio C4 in the back of mine and it's as loud as I need, probably 136db capable inside the car - no lie. Not that I would ever try to do such a thing, it's silly. My next box design will use a single 12" sub-woofer in an MAPD enclosure firing rearward to the tail lights but against the back seat for the longer wave signal to get into the passenger compartment.

Again, big boxes with a pair of 15's in these cars -- been there -- done that -- you will see. ;p