1st Dyno ever with my '87 GN...How can it run 12's?

[MyBoosta]

Hello Guys,

Saturday I had the GN dyno'd just to see what she is putting out, and here is what I got: 246/308 to the tires. We pulled it three times, and three pulls were about the same, A/F was about 12.7 or so while boost sat steady at 15 to 16psi.

We all know that in '87 all GN's were rated at 245/355 crank. So if you calculate a 18% drive train loss, that means about 201/290 or so to the tires. So, how is it that a 3,500 to 3,600lbs car ran low 14's to high 13's in stock configuration with so much weight and low HP output to the tires?

Peformance mods on my car: LT1 MAF, T+ with extender chip, test pipe, ATR dual catback, homemade CAI, air bags and modified actuator Rod...everything else is stock! Car have 27K original miles!

Right before I strapped her on the dyno, I added about 3 gallons of 104 unleaded gas. I've seen cars dyno lower on racing fuel when all being equal as with pump gas. The addition of racing fuel may have caused me a few ponies...I did not dial in more timing with the T+. I was just visiting the shop and did not count on dynoing her; the owner gave me a free shot so I did it. I would have dyno her w/o the racing fuel to really see what comes out if a dyno session was previously planned.

So, I don't think I have enough in the HP dept. to run 12's unless you guys know something I don't know. Again, I am new to this GN game.

Thanks for your inputs:smile:

 

[jurassic five 7]

To run 12's in stock form. You'll be using slicks, race gas (not mix), race chip (more timing), better fuel pump also, you also will be bumping the boost up also.

If you put all these things on and run 12's, your hp/torque will be a lot higher then your dyno run.


-Adam

 

[QUIP'6']

Hello Guys,

Saturday I had the GN dyno'd just to see what she is putting out, and here is what I got: 246/308 to the tires. We pulled it three times, and three pulls were about the same, A/F was about 12.7 or so while boost sat steady at 15 to 16psi.

We all know that in '87 all GN's were rated at 245/355 crank. So if you calculate a 18% drive train loss, that means about 201/290 or so to the tires. So, how is it that a 3,500 to 3,600lbs car ran low 14's to high 13's in stock configuration with so much weight and low HP output to the tires?

Peformance mods on my car: LT1 MAF, T+ with extender chip, test pipe, ATR dual catback, homemade CAI, air bags and modified actuator Rod...everything else is stock! Car have 27K original miles!

Right before I strapped her on the dyno, I added about 3 gallons of 104 unleaded gas. I've seen cars dyno lower on racing fuel when all being equal as with pump gas. The addition of racing fuel may have caused me a few ponies...I did not dial in more timing with the T+. I was just visiting the shop and did not count on dynoing her; the owner gave me a free shot so I did it. I would have dyno her w/o the racing fuel to really see what comes out if a dyno session was previously planned.

So, I don't think I have enough in the HP dept. to run 12's unless you guys know something I don't know. Again, I am new to this GN game.

Thanks for your inputs:smile:

245/355 is rated at the wheels

 

[MyBoosta]

245/355 is rated at the wheels

I don't think so Sir!:biggrin:

I was crank

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

yea, that was a crank rating, not rwhp. though, they sure act like they got that at the wheels.

 

[turbojimmy]

245/355 is rated at the wheels

Not that it matters to this thread at all, but I noticed your location is Aliquippa PA. My Cadillac is a flood total from a dealership in Aliquippa, PA. They lost about 200 cars in the flood, my Caddy is one of them. Here's some pics I found:

2001 Cadillac DeVille DTS Restoration

Small world.

Jim

 

[mikestertwo]

My bone stock 86' GN dyno'd 246/344 with a stock BBKJ chip

 

[rtviper]

My boosta your dyno numbers was at the wheels and thats about 300 plus at the motor. A 3500 lb car needs about 320 at motor to run a 12.9 so little tuning your there.

 

[QUIP'6']

Not that it matters to this thread at all, but I noticed your location is Aliquippa PA. My Cadillac is a flood total from a dealership in Aliquippa, PA. They lost about 200 cars in the flood, my Caddy is one of them. Here's some pics I found:

2001 Cadillac DeVille DTS Restoration

Small world.

Jim

let me take a guess UNIS

 

[QUIP'6']

yep just looked at the pictures it is unis its 5 minutes from my house. that was a result of a creek overflowing from hurricane ivan then happened with the next one too katrina

 

[QUIP'6']

I don't think so Sir!:biggrin:

I was crank

WHEELS

 

[bison]

Those hp numbers GM reported are a bunch of crap. The hp was closer to 270 at the flywheel on the stock boost setting. The torque number looks pretty close though. Ive seen cars run 12.90's@103mph before, so it doesnt really take a lot of power to do it. Traction is more more important than the hp. Only a little over 300 when weighing 3500 lbs as rtviper stated. Dont get to reliant on dyno numbers either. Ive seen cars lay down impressive numbers on he dyno and not back it up at the strip. When racing with my friends 87T a couple years ago the losers often asked how much hp i thought i had. My response was no more than 350 rwhp. They often said no way as they beat someone with a lot more hp. Then i retorted that i would be happy to dyno the car if they paid for it to prove it. Usually when a ricer or typical street race clown brags about his dyno numbers its because his et's suck.

 

[QUIP'6']

My bone stock 86' GN dyno'd 246/344 with a stock BBKJ chip

NOW THATS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT

 

[MyBoosta]

Those hp numbers GM reported are a bunch of crap. The hp was closer to 270 at the flywheel on the stock boost setting. The torque number looks pretty close though. Ive seen cars run 12.90's@103mph before, so it doesnt really take a lot of power to do it. Traction is more more important than the hp. Only a little over 300 when weighing 3500 lbs as rtviper stated. Dont get to reliant on dyno numbers either. Ive seen cars lay down impressive numbers on he dyno and not back it up at the strip. When racing with my friends 87T a couple years ago the losers often asked how much hp i thought i had. My response was no more than 350 rwhp. They often said no way as they beat someone with a lot more hp. Then i retorted that i would be happy to dyno the car if they paid for it to prove it. Usually when a ricer or typical street race clown brags about his dyno numbers its because his et's suck.

Hello Bison,

Trust me, I am not a Dyno racer, and never will be. I too have beaten dyno queens at the track. Many people get too caught up on dyno numbers and why? I do not know. I recall back in the day my 5.0 Stang did not dyno to high...at least not as high as my friends Vettes or Camaros but when it came to running at the track, they usually saw my tail lights. Heck, the results were the same even when we switched cars for comparison purposes.

So, the tuning aspect was mentioned above; I don't what else I can do. I tried just about every combo that T+ allows me with out frying the motor or blowing a head gasket.

I'm thinking about calling Mr. Red Armstrong and get two of his chips (Street pump gas and Race racing fuel) and take out all the guessing game. What do you guys think?

Heck, I remember friends with GN's back in the early to mid '90 did this: remove the Cat, slap on a CAI kit, install a fuel pressure regulator, run a direct wire for the fuel pump, install a chip and run 12's on street tires! Yes, Street tires. The CHIP was the key. Maybe I should do the same to keep it simple! I think they ran with racing fuel though!

Thanks for the suggestions guys...keep it coming; this is the only way I will learn.

 

[84BuickGNYorkPA]

A lot of us run turbo tweak chips with great results, here is his link TurboTweak Home . My advice is get 50 or 60 lb. injectors, turbo tweak chip, find a used TE-44 cheap, Progressive Alky kit, new walbro fuel pump/hot wire kit, boost gage, audio knock alarm, adj fuel pressure regulator, fuel pressure gage. You will be amazed at the amount of fun with this set up on the street...

Chuck

 

[Blazer406]

A lot of us run turbo tweak chips with great results, here is his link TurboTweak Home . My advice is get 50 or 60 lb. injectors, turbo tweak chip, find a used TE-44 cheap, Progressive Alky kit, new walbro fuel pump/hot wire kit, boost gage, audio knock alarm, adj fuel pressure regulator, fuel pressure gage. You will be amazed at the amount of fun with this set up on the street...

Chuck

What he said....

Also.... dynos are great for dialing a car in.... and comparing one car to another ON THE SAME DYNO.... other than that.... they are useless. If you talk to some people... they will tell you the Mustang brand of dyno is much more stingy with it's numbers... vs say the dynojet brand dyno. Some people call the Dynojet a "magazine dyno" .... meaning... lots of magazines use them because they can publish the inflated numbers and everyone that reads them will "wow" over it and buy more magazines... and ultimately more parts from the vendors.

IMHO....In reality.. the track is the best dyno.

 

[Blown&Injected]

I am not so sure the HP numbers from GM are BS - take note at the RPM's - I think it is rated at 4,100 or close.

I bet it is true that a GN has only 30 HP........
at idle :biggrin:

 

[MyBoosta]

A lot of us run turbo tweak chips with great results, here is his link TurboTweak Home . My advice is get 50 or 60 lb. injectors, turbo tweak chip, find a used TE-44 cheap, Progressive Alky kit, new walbro fuel pump/hot wire kit, boost gage, audio knock alarm, adj fuel pressure regulator, fuel pressure gage. You will be amazed at the amount of fun with this set up on the street...

Chuck

Sorry Chuck,

I don't know how I forgot to mention that the fuel dept. is taken care of. I have 50lbs injectors, 340 hot wired pump, guages in the car(oil press/water temp/boost/knock gauge).

I just heard that if I dump the T+ and extender chip, I would have to get another stock MAF...and good luck finding a good or new one!

Thanks.

 

[ES1]

Although I run Turbo Tweak chips, you have a great chip.
I would leave it alone and learn to tune with it.
You need an adjustable fuel pressure gauge to set the fuel at what your chip maker suggest and then tune from there.

 

[alittlev6]

My very first dypo pull in a mustang dyno : 250rwhp/310rwtrq. i was shocked and dissapointed because when i first bought the car,it was already eqquiped with a te-45a turbo,ported heads,kenne ball cam,kenne bell intake,70 TB50lb injectors,and turbo tweek chip. In further inpection, after the last pulled,we found out that the coil pack and module were bad. that was back in 97