16 Volt Setup
- Thread starter Jeff Rand
- Start date
Something else that's been bugging me. I'm not an electrical engineer, but if you take a component designed to be used with 12V and run it on 16V, you will increase the amperage draw of the component. E over I, R. It's a basic law of electricity. Higher amperage translates to higher heat. Correct? If the internal circuitry is not designed to handle the extra amperage draw for a given length of time, won't the magic smoke get out? I always thought that the idea was to keep the smoke in the box.
Higher voltage = lower amperage draw
I=R/E
Example:
150w / 12v = 12.5A
150w / 16v = 9.375A
Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com
But what did you do to check and make sure you wouldn't have a problem? Did you just slap the stuff on and cross your fingers? "OK guys. Let's start her up. Keep on the look out for magic smoke!"
Probably took advice from someone else who has already done it. I installed a 16V setup on my car about 5 years ago after seeing how well it worked on one of my customers car. I don't know of a single person who went to 16V and regretted it.
Donnie, Billy t. is correct. Higher voltage means lower amperage. Thats why high voltage lines on poles that supply your whole neighbor hood up on those poles are small wires!! Those small wires are at a very high voltage ,and will support a whole bunch of amperage at lower (120) volts. Mike
I understand the benefits of going 16V for starting, ignition power, fuel pump, etc. And, I know it's the big craze right now. I just cringe at the idea of just slapping the stuff on and hoping all your electronic components will take it. Especially with computers these days. Does anyone have a reasonable explanation why a 16V system will never hurt a 12V component? Or, is everyone just hoping and praying that a critical electrical component won't fail at a most unfortunate time? For instance, a nitrous system relay that decides to stick when you really, really wish it was off.
Guys. Do the math.
A circuit with 12 volts and 12 ohms resistance = 1 ampere current. 12/12=1.
The same circuit with 16V. 16/12=1.333 amps.
To calculate I (current) with known values for E and R, E (volts) / R (resistance).
To calculate E with known values for I and R, I multiplied by R.
To calculate R with known values for E and I, E / I.
Remember the triangle.
E over I, R.
This is the most basic law of electricity. It is cast in stone, and there's no way around it. Sorry.
Don't take my word for it. Check it on the internet!
Voltage don't kill. Amperage does.
A circuit with 12 volts and 12 ohms resistance = 1 ampere current. 12/12=1.
The same circuit with 16V. 16/12=1.333 amps.
To calculate I (current) with known values for E and R, E (volts) / R (resistance).
To calculate E with known values for I and R, I multiplied by R.
To calculate R with known values for E and I, E / I.
Remember the triangle.
E over I, R.
This is the most basic law of electricity. It is cast in stone, and there's no way around it. Sorry.
Don't take my word for it. Check it on the internet!
Voltage don't kill. Amperage does.
Donnie, Im too tired to explain it , but why are all your big appliances run on 220 volt?? Cause its 1/2 the amperage of 120 volt!!! Why do big mfg. plants run most equipment on 480 volt?? Cause its less amperage at the higher voltage which in turn means you can use smaller wire , fuses , etc. which is much cheaper to install!! I swear its true!!! Mike
Donnie, Im too tired to explain it , but why are all your big appliances run on 220 volt?? Cause its 1/2 the amperage of 120 volt!!! Why do big mfg. plants run most equipment on 480 volt?? Cause its less amperage at the higher voltage which in turn means you can use smaller wire , fuses , etc. which is much cheaper to install!! I swear its true!!! Mike
You're forgetting to include the resistance values of the components that run at that voltage. There are three variables in the equation. Voltage, amperage and resistance. A component that has a high resistance value can draw low amps with high voltage depending on the resistance value. A component with low resistance on a high voltage circuit will put on a BIG show. One low resistance component is the human body. That's why you stay away from 110 outlets and turn off the power before servicing one.
I agree - I run a sealed 16v AGM battery and ditched the alternator altogether. A fully discharge 16v battery will still have more voltage than a fully charged 12v battery. No problems as long as you charge it between rounds. The AGM types are a whole lot more forgiving and do charge faster than the older wet cells.
As far as worrying about smoking your "12v" components, most "12v" components and electronics are actually tested at around 14.5 volts which is theoretically what a good 12v alternator will put out. It's not like we're talking about going to a 24volt setup. If there does happen to be a component(s) that may have issues with the 16v, there are step down transformers available. I have been running a 16v system for 8 years with ZERO problems and I seriously doubt many folks have more electronics on board than my car.
If it's not a problem, then a 12V system alternator that's putting out 16 volts should not be considered an over-charging and faulty alternator. Yet automotive manuals will warn against running an alternator that is over-charging. Why is that?
A 16V system will typically be over 18V because of charging. I think someone already brought that up.
Bent6. You bring up an interesting point. Most 12V components and electronics are actually tested to around 14.5V. Why aren't they tested to 18+ volts?
A 16V system will typically be over 18V because of charging. I think someone already brought that up.
Bent6. You bring up an interesting point. Most 12V components and electronics are actually tested to around 14.5V. Why aren't they tested to 18+ volts?
turbodragster
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2004
i feel a 16 v setup works extremmly well in race applications. but i do understand things will have a tendancy to burn out quicker ( lights, possibly fan motors , etc....) . just be aware that there might be issues that you need to adress . as far as racing 16 v i can make three or four pass before i even notice the cars starter slowing. i still charge between rounds. so my advice is with a race car, i think 16 volts is a must but with a street car its all up to you. both sytems have there pluses and minuses. just got to decide whats best for you and what your trying to do.
Does amperage go up or down when switching from a 12V system to 16V?
Do the lights get brighter or dimmer with 16V? Is more or less heat generated from a light bulb on 16V? If the answer is brighter and more heat, then you're telling me that particular electrical circuit is creating more heat due to higher amperage flow. A light bulb circuit is a very simple and basic electrical circuit. You have power (battery), wires, switch and load (the light bulb). Every electrical circuit has a load. The load is in the form of resistance to electron flow. Amperage, which is actually electron flow through a circuit, creates heat. The higher the flow, the higher the heat. That's why circuits that are expected to flow high amps are a larger wire. A high voltage wire can actually be small if the load resistance is high causing a low amperage draw through the circuit.
Do the lights get brighter or dimmer with 16V? Is more or less heat generated from a light bulb on 16V? If the answer is brighter and more heat, then you're telling me that particular electrical circuit is creating more heat due to higher amperage flow. A light bulb circuit is a very simple and basic electrical circuit. You have power (battery), wires, switch and load (the light bulb). Every electrical circuit has a load. The load is in the form of resistance to electron flow. Amperage, which is actually electron flow through a circuit, creates heat. The higher the flow, the higher the heat. That's why circuits that are expected to flow high amps are a larger wire. A high voltage wire can actually be small if the load resistance is high causing a low amperage draw through the circuit.
I'm not trying to talk anyone out of running 16V. My concern is that so many people don't understand the possible problems with doing so. As turbodragster wrote, there are pros and cons to both systems. Be aware.
I, for one, can't afford to send my ECM back to the manufacturer to have them tell me it's fried due to too much voltage. So far my ignition has been adequate and as long as my battery is in tip, top shape, I have no starting problem. Although I'm sure it could be so much better on 16V.
I, for one, can't afford to send my ECM back to the manufacturer to have them tell me it's fried due to too much voltage. So far my ignition has been adequate and as long as my battery is in tip, top shape, I have no starting problem. Although I'm sure it could be so much better on 16V.
The only difference between a 12v and 16v battery is the number of cells. A 12v uses 6 cells vs 8 cells in a 16v. A fully charged cell is around 2.1v - x 6 = 12.6v for a fully charged 12v battery and x 8 = 16.8v for a fully charged 16v battery. Somewhere around 1.8 volts per cell is considered fully discharged so you can see that a fully discharged 16v battery will still put out 14.4v - still more than a fully charged 12v. There is a limit to this as amperage draw, etc comes into play but you get the idea.
The reason an alternator putting out 16volt is considered bad on a 12v battery is that the plates will become corroded and it will also cause excess gassing which causes the cells to loose electrolytes. In simple terms, the battery will wear out prematurely or possibly explode. AGM type batteries require higher currents to fully charge and are more tolerable to higher charging alternators.
It is recommended to upgrade all wiring to a minimum of 16ga when making the switch. I don't see any reason to run a 16v system on a street car unless you are into car audio. I would never go back to a 12v system on my race car. FWIW
The reason an alternator putting out 16volt is considered bad on a 12v battery is that the plates will become corroded and it will also cause excess gassing which causes the cells to loose electrolytes. In simple terms, the battery will wear out prematurely or possibly explode. AGM type batteries require higher currents to fully charge and are more tolerable to higher charging alternators.
It is recommended to upgrade all wiring to a minimum of 16ga when making the switch. I don't see any reason to run a 16v system on a street car unless you are into car audio. I would never go back to a 12v system on my race car. FWIW
Don, you and Bent6 are both right. If you keep the resistance constant and increase the voltage you will increase the current flow (amps) and increase the power dissipated (watts). If a component is not rated for the higher voltage and power dissipation it may self-destruct. That's the situation if you put a 16 V battery into a car with a 12 V system. If you keep the power (watts) constant and increase the voltage then the amps will decrease, which lets you use smaller wires and increases efficiency. To do that you have to completely redesign whatever you are powering so that it has higher internal resistance so at the higher voltage the amps will be less and the power the same - that's what is done in motors and appliances that run on 220 V instead of 110 V, and if you just plug a 110 V appliance into a 220 V outlet you are virtually guaranteed to see smoke. On a car, just as we can push the hp of a stock block up some because it was engineered with a safety margin of strength, car electronics are also engineered with a safety margin on the input voltage. They have to be because alternators and batteries are notorious for voltage spikes and noise. What that margin really is only the manufacturer can say, but the empirical evidence is that the ecms and radios can take 16-19 V. Don't at least some of the aftermarket ecm manufacturers even advertise the input voltage range (I think FAST does but I'm too lazy to go look)? Light bulbs are close to constant resistance and so at the higher voltage will draw more current, dissipate more watts, burn brighter, and burn out sooner. That 12 V alternator putting out 16 V and described as overcharging is only overcharging because it is connected to a 12 V battery. It would be undercharging if connected to a 16 V battery . Lead acid batteries need about 2.3-2.35 V per cell to reach full charge, which is why alternators for 12 V batteries put out 6 x 2.3=13.8 V (in the old days; several years ago they changed the internal battery chemistry slightly and now the target is more like 14.2 V), and an alternator for a 16 V battery would put out 18.6-18.8 V.
. Lead acid batteries need about 2.3-2.35 V per cell to reach full charge, which is why alternators for 12 V batteries put out 6 x 2.3=13.8 V (in the old days; several years ago they changed the internal battery chemistry slightly and now the target is more like 14.2 V), and an alternator for a 16 V battery would put out 18.6-18.8 V.
