Help, Help, Help

[Dan Brown]

New to sight, had buicks in the late 90's. Had kids sold Buicks!!! Nuff said. Now have a 87 GN. TE44, 42.5 Injectors (can't tell brand), 3" SS downpipe, 3" ATR exhaust, Walbro Pump Hot Wired, Turbo Tweaks street chip. Stock Intercooler. OTC 4000e scanner. Ok now here is the issue: At around 7bs of boost, the car starts surging and the O2 volts go from 1.02 to 0.01-0.00 pretty quick. I am getting no knock or timing retard. It has an adjustable FPR set at 42 bs base. One thing I can't see is what FP is doing when this is happening. The MAF is aftermarket and the readings seem low from what I remember. Does anyone have any suggestions??? Also, help me remember the values I should be getting. TPS is .44 idle-4.83 WOT
Thanks In Advance

 

[earlbrown]

First I would take that aftermarket MAF and throw it as far as you can. Then walk out where it landed, pick it up and throw it again. The only thing consistent about them is not working right out of the box. A translator and modern GM MAF is the only way to fly.

Sounds like you need to do a spring cleaning/tuneup, replace any hoses that leave black residue on your finger (and replace the wastegate hoses no matter what), and verify linear fuel pressure under boost.

 

[Dan Brown]

Could the MAF be causing this?

 

[TurboTom72]

Hi,
Here is a link to the Quick Reference page on GNTTYPE.org. Lots of helpful info both there and at vortexbuicks-etc.com. Get a fuel pressure gauge with a long hose and tape the gauge to the windshield. Check that the fuel pressure rises 1lb. to 1psi above what your vaccum line off reading was. MAF can also be the culprit. Is it stock? Make sure the reading is going to 255 at WOT. HTH. Good luck. keep us updated with your progress/findings.

http://www.gnttype.org/maint/quickref.html

 

[Dan Brown]

Thanks for all of the help. Put a good MAF and it ran great. Now I feel I have a fuel pump issue. Changed fuel filter and there was no change. At 14psi the O2 number start dropping quick. It has Walbro hot wired. Any suggestions on a pump...who's and which one?

 

[earlbrown]

When did you buy the Walbro? There was a very large batch of bad ones a couple years ago.

 

[TurboTom72]

I installed a Red Armstrong XP pump after I discovered I had one of the faulty pumps that Earl mentioned. That really pissed me off as I had changed a previous pump out as a precaution and replaced it with a new one that failed after only a couple hundred miles. The new Racetronix pumps are looking pretty good these days with many having greater output numbers than the Walboro pumps. My pump is basically a modified Walbro, but I would probably have looked to Racetronix had their newest line of pumps had been available at the time.

 

[Dan Brown]

I have the receipt where the pump was purchased in 2010. I borrowed a FP guage and the pressure comes up with boost but jumps around and I feel it does not come up as quick as it should. If I turn the boost down to around 12, it runs fine. Remember, I just bought this car three weeks ago and trying to run everything down.

 

[TurboTom72]

Sounds to me like a flakey pump. I am no expert, but I would start there first. A small price to pay for piece of mind in my opinion. Next in line if there is still an issue would be the Adjustable FPR. The diaphrams had deteriorated on mine when I initially got my car and it drove me nuts for a while as I hadn't realized it. I noticed that the fuel pressure to the rail was dropping off rather quickly after I shut the car off, and then finally noticed a little fuel leak by the fuel pressure adjusment. As earl stated in one of the previous posts, change all the vacuum lines. Also good insurance. GNttype.org has the whole spring cleaning regiment listed. Also a good idea to help cover all bases.

 

[huntsg]

When you get on the boost what is your battery voltage doing? If your voltage goes down your coil pack could be going bad and not letting the pump work its best.

 

[earlbrown]

I have the receipt where the pump was purchased in 2010. I borrowed a FP guage and the pressure comes up with boost but jumps around and I feel it does not come up as quick as it should. If I turn the boost down to around 12, it runs fine. Remember, I just bought this car three weeks ago and trying to run everything down.

2010 sounds about right for all the bad pumps. do a search for bad walboro pumps and look at the dates. You might have just found your answer.

On the upside, it never hurts to have a new pump, verify the hangar mods, and inspect the inside of the tank.

 

[TurboTom72]

Here is a quote from the bulletin that full throttle posted when the recall was efective. I'm pretty sure that full throttle is no longer taking back bad pumps. This will help you ID your pump as one of the junks that so many of us got due to quality control issues by the manufacturer. The memo was dated 1/14/2009.

Some Walbro fuel pumps part number F2000169 may devolop an internal leak and not make correct fuel prussure. After extensive testing of many samples it has been determined that pumps with a date code of 20007 or the 200th day of 2007 and newer may have this problem. Not all F2000169 pumps have this problem and no other part numbers exibit this problem.

 

[Ttype6]

Changed fuel filter and there was no change.

What brand?

 

[Ttype6]

I installed a Red Armstrong XP pump after I discovered I had one of the faulty pumps that Earl mentioned. My pump is basically a modified Walboro.

No,it is a pump that is built to Red's specs by Walbro. You can't buy a Walbro and modify it to flow as well as Red's. Still the same pump that it has always been. A very good flowing and reliable pump.

 

[TurboTom72]

No,it is a pump that is built to Red's specs by Walbro. You can't buy a Walbro and modify it to flow as well as Red's. Still the same pump that it has always been. A very good flowing and reliable pump.

I agree that it is a very good pump, and I've had excellent luck with mine so far and would reccomend them to anyone. I really don't recall seeing any info anywhere that mentions what your claims are here. Basically what I've read on the various TB sites throughout the years is that Red modified GSS307 pumps by shimming the pressure relief spring which as a result achieved higher flow numbers. There is actually discussions on this forum about that exact subject matter and Racetronix actually makes mention of it. In July 2010, I orderd my XP plus from Quad Air. I'm pretty sure that Jane told me in conversation that Red modifies all the pumps himself in house, as I was curious, and asked her specifically about the pump in an effort to avoid buying another GSS340 pump, which died with under 300 miles on it. But that was several years ago, and things may have changed there since then. Also, and I could be wrong on this, but I don't think he is selling enough units to warrant Walboro to build pumps to his specs. If they did build to his specs, I think the cost per unit would be so high that I doubt he'd be able to sell them at $140ea.+ s/h and still be profitable. No offense, just saying. Anything is possible though, so I could be wrong too.

 

[Ttype6]

I agree that it is a very good pump, and I've had excellent luck with mine so far and would reccomend them to anyone. I really don't recall seeing any info anywhere that mentions what your claims are here. Basically what I've read on the various TB sites throughout the years is that Red modified GSS307 pumps by shimming the pressure relief spring which as a result achieved higher flow numbers. There is actually discussions on this forum about that exact subject matter and Racetronix actually makes mention of it. In July 2010, I orderd my XP plus from Quad Air. I'm pretty sure that Jane told me in conversation that Red modifies all the pumps himself in house, as I was curious, and asked her specifically about the pump in an effort to avoid buying another GSS340 pump, which died with under 300 miles on it. But that was several years ago, and things may have changed there since then. Also, and I could be wrong on this, but I don't think he is selling enough units to warrant Walboro to build pumps to his specs. If they did build to his specs, I think the cost per unit would be so high that I doubt he'd be able to sell them at $140ea.+ s/h and still be profitable. No offense, just saying. Anything is possible though, so I could be wrong too.

He does override the relief valve himself to insure that maximum pressure is available when it is needed most at maximum rpm and boost. This doesn't make the pump flow more volume. If the pump was the same internally as all the other 255s,it would flow the same. It flows more. Just like the regulator he sells,it looks like an exact duplicate of the one Kirban sells.It is on the outside,but not on the inside. If you come up with a modification to a product and ask a manufacturer to build the product with these modifications,it is common that they will only sell the modified product to you as you own the design. The industry rates pumps at a low pressure. The only way to determine which one of the 255s flows the best is to measure the flow at 70 lbs of pressure where we need them to flow. This is where Red's pumps shine.

 

[TurboTom72]

Hi Dan, Sorry for us Hijacking your thread and turning it into a Red Armstrong fuel pump discussion. I'm going to end the debate here. TType6, although you raise some interesting points with regards to Red's pumps, you basically reiterated what I originally said. You claimed that walbro makes the pumps to Red's specs, so still basically a Walbro pump as they manufactured it, and you say that the pumps weren't modified, yet agree that Red shimmed the pressure relief, which, in my opinion, is a modification. So you are basically agreeing with my initial statement that the XP plus pump is a walbro pump modified by Red Armstrong at Quad Air. As our debate has resulted in the highjacking of Dan's tech support thread,and you now have sparked my interest about the topic, I am going to start a seperate thread so that some of the other long standing members can also chime in and possibly shed some light on the situation for both of us. I am sure others out there would be interested as well, and the purpose of this site is to convey accurate info to the masses. I will also put in a call to Red's shop tommorrow to see if they can shed some light on the situation as well. I will post up some of our convo here on the thread, and with the help of the community, maybe we can get some factual info. Not trying to bust stones, but really would like to know the whole story if possible.

Here is a link to the thread : http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/th...uad-air-xp-plus-fuel-pump-information.395427/

 

[Ttype6]

maybe we can get some factual info.

That would be an interesting alternative to what I've posted.

 

[turbofrank]

This has been debated many times before and there are many threads on all the boards. Bottom line Reds pump is good and the haters will not say so. Try finding a thread of one failing

 

[TurboTom72]

This has been debated many times before and there are many threads on all the boards. Bottom line Reds pump is good and the haters will not say so. Try finding a thread of one failing

Precisely why I bought an XP plus pump when my GSS340 failed. Everyone seems happy with them and I am happy with mine. No talk of failures and good flow numbers. I would recommend his pump to anyone, I just don't think I needed to be corrected in a troubleshooting thread about wether it's a modded walboro or not. That's all I'm saying. All my dialouge was tech related prior to that.