How to fix negative camber in rear

[winstonrt]

Gidday folks, question for you all, I recently placed the eibach lowering springs all around...I had the front alligned at a shop and they fixed my negative camber and they told me that I would need shims to fix the rear camber...

Does anyone know and or recommend of a place where I can get the shims to do this....????

Also, how exactly does that work, I am no mechanic so any info would be appreciated....

 

[TurboDave]

GN's have a solid rear axle. How can they possibly have ANY camber + or - ?????? Unless the rear axle is bent?????

 

[turbofabricator]

Rear camber can only be fixed by welding the axle housing end tubes on straight. No shimming in the world will be able to fix rear axle camber issues. Camber is the relationship between the upper and the lower tire dimensions. Simply take a tape measure and measure the inside gap of the upper edges of the tire and then measure the lower inside dimension of the tires. THe only way to fix this angularity is with a welder. If you completely remove the rear end and bolt the largest diameter wheela and tires on it you can find, then rotate the rear end over and over and watch the dimension between the upper inside edges of the tires. If they go inboard and outboard as you roatate the rear end, then you have a bent axle tube or the housing end(s) have been welded on at an angle. Not sure the alignment shop gave you correct information. Find a reputable shop to give you a second opinion. Google caster/camber and learn a little about the terms so you will understand what they are telling you. Alot of shops just aren't able to communicate very well, or they are just plain idiots.

 

[that national]

i wouldnt worry about it, it is what it is...

 

[winstonrt]

OK cool, thanx guys....I guess since I lowered the vehicle, it just looks more negative then it did before...An illusion I guess...I did however think the springs lowered the rear too much..The front looks great but rear YUCK.....So I was thinking of getting a 1/2 inch spacer for the springs in the rear, any recommendations?????

 

[that national]

did you put the rubber spring isolators on the springs?

 

[charlief1]

Rear camber can only be fixed by welding the axle housing end tubes on straight. No shimming in the world will be able to fix rear axle camber issues. Camber is the relationship between the upper and the lower tire dimensions. Simply take a tape measure and measure the inside gap of the upper edges of the tire and then measure the lower inside dimension of the tires. THe only way to fix this angularity is with a welder. If you completely remove the rear end and bolt the largest diameter wheela and tires on it you can find, then rotate the rear end over and over and watch the dimension between the upper inside edges of the tires. If they go inboard and outboard as you roatate the rear end, then you have a bent axle tube or the housing end(s) have been welded on at an angle. Not sure the alignment shop gave you correct information. Find a reputable shop to give you a second opinion. Google caster/camber and learn a little about the terms so you will understand what they are telling you. Alot of shops just aren't able to communicate very well, or they are just plain idiots.

Very good post Ken but there are two ways you can have negative camber in the rear without a bent axle housing. A bent axle can cause it or a bad axle or bearing. If the bearing goes out it can eat the axle and I've seen it several times. Makes lots of noise though. If the axle is bent then you'll end up with a vibration in the rear of the car. Either of these can cause a "camber" issue and are easily repaired but like I said, you'd either hear it or feel it.

 

[Roger]

I had to "straighten / bend the rear axle on my 59 Pontiac years ago. I used a chain to hold it & a jack to bend/straighten - I had it on an alignment machine to get it correct.

 

[Slow91z]

Very good post Ken but there are two ways you can have negative camber in the rear without a bent axle housing. A bent axle can cause it or a bad axle or bearing. If the bearing goes out it can eat the axle and I've seen it several times. Makes lots of noise though. If the axle is bent then you'll end up with a vibration in the rear of the car. Either of these can cause a "camber" issue and are easily repaired but like I said, you'd either hear it or feel it.

Actually if the axle is bent the wheel will wobble not have negative camber...Been there.

There are more bent housings in Turbo Regals than any of us want to think about.

 

[charlief1]

Actually if the axle is bent the wheel will wobble not have negative camber...Been there.

There are more bent housings in Turbo Regals than any of us want to think about.

Not arguing but he was talking about it showing up on an alignment rack.:biggrin: Not going down the road.

 

[Slow91z]

Not arguing but he was talking about it showing up on an alignment rack.:biggrin: Not going down the road.

But then he said it it looks negative and that it may be an illusion after lowering it...Most shops are to lazy to do a 4 wheel anyway on a live axle car even though they should so they can see if there's a problem.

 

[timdesu2000]

The posts are correct. No way to adjust any camber issues on a solid axle rear car. Would the shop have been talking about pinion angle? When lowering the car it could have the pinion angle off but if you dont have any vibration or noise from the driveshaft then you should be good.

 

[winstonrt]

Well no noise or wobble from the rear or anywhere....But someone above mentioned the spring isolators...HMMMM, maybe my friend did not put those on, they would have been there from the stock springs would they not....DAMN...guess I have to crawl under and see....

Would the isolators lift the rear or the car a bit or do I need the spacers cause efter I put the Eibach's in, the rear looks a little low to me, want to bring it up maybe 1/2 inch......

 

[bison]

But then he said it it looks negative and that it may be an illusion after lowering it...Most shops are to lazy to do a 4 wheel anyway on a live axle car even though they should so they can see if there's a problem.

They arent too lazy they are just too stupid to do anything with it. They could align the front to the back and charge extra if they wanted. If the housings are bent you will never get it lined up.

 

[~JM~]

I would wait a while to allow the springs to settle before trying to adjust the height on either end. There is a good chance that the front will settle a bit lower than it is setting right now.

How do you like the quality of the Eibach spring package & how is the ride (any firmer)? Do you mind telling me what they cost & where you purchased them from? I'm considering buying a set for my '78 Malibu.

Thanks
~JM~

 

[winstonrt]

I purchased them off EBay for around 210....They do make the ride a little stiffer but I definetly can go around corners a lot faster without feeling like I am going to role over...Ride is still pretty smooth....

I have to add to this thread cause I could not believe my eyes were fooling me that much...

OK, last night I decided ( screw this ) I took a level that was the exact length of my tires...I placed the level on the front tires from bottom to top..Perfectly level to the earth...I then placed the level on the rear tires and HMMM, negative for sure...Now I know some guys here say it may be bent axle or whatever they are saying, but, I measured the other rear side of the car and bingo, basically the exact same measurment off...Now I am no rocket science man but what are the chances of both the axles being bent pretty much the same...I could understand one side but both...I truley believe that after I placed the Eibach springs in the car, it created a negative camber or do these cars normally have that much negative camber in the rear...Would be cool if someone went out to there car and placed a level on the side of the tire to see if it really is that far off...

Now as for the shop that I brought it too, They never actually looked at the rear of the car but knew the car well...They are real good guys and probably one of the most honest mech's on this side of the city...Before I even brought the car to them they said they would have no problem alligning the fronts and the rearsa should be good because there really is no allignment on them, now he did mention something along the lines of shims ( I have no idea exactly what he was talking about SHIMS )...

Now, because of this negative camber which I know is negative, I was thinking I would purchase a set of spacers for the rear springs...I was only going to get maybe 1/2 inch spacers and see if it did anything.... So am I totally off my rocker here...Car runs completely smooth at all speeds......

 

[Jerryl]

...I placed the level on the front tires from bottom to top..Perfectly level to the earth...I then placed the level on the rear tires and HMMM, negative for sure...Now I know some guys here say it may be bent axle or whatever they are saying, but, I measured the other rear side of the car and bingo, basically the exact same measurment off... . . . . . ...Car runs completely smooth at all speeds......

Something does not sound right. (News flash right? LOL)

The front tires should not be perpendicular to the ground and will typically have positive camber.
Measurement should be done on the wheel. Too much variation in the tires from weight loading, tire pressure, etc etc to do this on the tire.
Anyway . . . . . . .Since you measured them to be “perfectly level”, there is an issue with the car . . . . or measurement.

Springs can change weight transfer, which can affect camber or caster in the front . . . but since the car "runs completely smooth at all speeds", I cannot imagine any way for the rear to have neg. chamber on a solid axle.

Are you measuring/observing this on “verified level surface”?

 

[winstonrt]

Measuring on the most level surface I can find...But I would think that if the ground was not level, then the tires(rim) would look like this // not like this /\..OR even one straight and the other negative(or positive)....I know this is not the proper way to tell if they are alligned ( camber wise ) but hey, very simple to do and the level can not be off by that much.....I press the level to the bottom side of the tire and the top of the tire....

By the way, this is a POSI car....

 

[winstonrt]

Sorry forgot to mention, when they alligned the front of the car, he fixed the camber to within spec...Took him about 1 3/4 hours to do too...Guess the bolts were not cooperating....

 

[pacecarta]

you cant measure up down with a level on the rubber , it needs to be on the rim because the tire bulges at the bottom and you wont get a true reading
and check your level

and for the last time the rear axle is fixed and sent out from factory straight in all directions but it can get bent but youd likely notice some degree of noise depending on ihow much its out , no noise id forget about it , ive seen them tweaked from tow trucks using hooks or even a dyno where they are stupid enough to tie the pumpkin , doesnt take as much as youd think to bend the axle tubes and it can it be fixed but requires rebending or replacing the tubes , a job for a shop with the tools to ensure its true