Thank you for the encouragement. I will.
Picking a New Full Race Stall Speed
- Thread starter Alky V6
- Start date
Different TC. I'm not here to sell anything, so I'll keep the brand to myself to avoid the heckling that you know is just waiting in the wings.
Otto, you need to pay attention to what I write. The present nitrous shot is jet size rated at 364hp. Nitrous with methanol nets a fraction of that rating. My guess, somewhere between 200-250hp. Not an uncommon figure for a person that would be using nitrous with gasoline to spool a 91mm on a much larger motor.LOL, Eating what words???
that you have a 91mm turbo that takes a 400 shot or nitrous to spool and FINALLY (how many months or years later)runs as fast as your 76 did,How much boost is the 91 running at?
Ill give ya a little pat on the back for FINALLY changing your convertor.
Now if you keep taking the rest of the advice of the pros here you may end up running in the 8s a in a few more years
The TC change did not result in a flop, just like we said. How did we know before hand you ask? Because for us, its not before hand. We have already been there, so we KNOW somewhat of what it takes. People have told you from their own personal experience, that the TC was too tight, so you changed it and now it works. if it didnt work, then yes its because of your unusual combo. But with the advice of a good TC guy(such as Dusty/PTC), Im sure that with some further testing, even an unusual combination could be worked out with great success. As far as your 1.28 with the small turbo and tight TC, YOU may be proud of it, but the Crickets see it as, its a 3100lb. car, with a 76MM turbo and on nitrous, using slicks. We know of cars that weigh 3560lbs on radials, with a 70mm turbo and no nitrous, that run 1.30 60fts. Again, thats 460lbs. less and a much smaller turbo, on radials. So yes, the Crickets are unimpressed.
Speaking of people offering their help and professional knowledge. We all hope that you purchased a convertor from one of these board members, that have graciously offered their expertise over the last many months on information that YOU asked for. Im sure that people on here would be upset, if you didnt at least return the favor and offer to purchase parts or a complete unit from them.
P.s Your turbo is still TOO BIG
So excellent advice is considered, "Just throw a high stall torque converter in it".
Wow. That was a hard one to come up with.
I would imagine then that many people forego the fine tuning of everthing else and quickly go for the, simple, easy, lazy, obvious, more bang for the buck solution. I can understand that. That probably encompasses 99.99% of how people would approach it. And, there's certainly nothing wrong with that.
I refused to take the easy way out and make sure everthing else was up to par before making the change.
OK. You guys are brilliant. But,... my fuel map is so much more dialed in.:biggrin:
Let's not forget the cubic inch differential and much better breathing heads. Oh, and that's an old school T76 Q trim. Everyone keeps bragging that the 70mms, and even smaller, these days easily out perform the old T76. Or are they all lying? Personally, I think they are.:biggrin:
That T76 combination, on the nitrous for a staggering 4 tenths of a second.
Everyone keeps saying 3100 lbs. Why is that? With the T76 it weighed in at 3160. If you're going to round the number for your calculations, then you should be using 3200 or 3150 to be fair.
The turbo will not be too big for a Stage II headed, stroked version. Go ahead. Tell me it will still be too big.
Some keep getting in a bunch about me coming on here asking for "advice". How often do I do that? In some cases, such as suspension, I do appreciate the advice I receive. I have much to learn in that area still. In other cases, I really can't say I've gotten much advice that was usefull except, "Throw a high stall in it." Yeah,... that's a hard one to come up with. That's the sort of advice I'd expect from just about,... mmm,... EVERYONE IN THIS WORLD! Come to think of it, that's really the only piece of advice that I've gotten. I guess it will be a lot harder to come up with the next brilliant deduction, won't it.
If some of you haven't realized it by now, the majority of my threads and postings are meant to share with others the adventures I've gone through with this project, and maybe teach something to someone. If nothing else, to show them that there is more than ONE way to skin a cat. The feedback has been fun, but believe me, there's very little that I can't figure out on my own, and I think I've proved that throughout the many postings I've made.
In this particular thread, I challenge anyone to find where I asked for advice from anyone. I started this thread with the intent of treating it more like a Blog than anything else. So some of you can get off your high horse. I'm not asking for your almighty advice. Constructive comments, questions, or suggestions are welcome, but as I already stated, I am well capable of figuring things out on my own.
If some of you haven't realized it by now, the majority of my threads and postings are meant to share with others the adventures I've gone through with this project, and maybe teach something to someone. If nothing else, to show them that there is more than ONE way to skin a cat. The feedback has been fun, but believe me, there's very little that I can't figure out on my own, and I think I've proved that throughout the many postings I've made.
In this particular thread, I challenge anyone to find where I asked for advice from anyone. I started this thread with the intent of treating it more like a Blog than anything else. So some of you can get off your high horse. I'm not asking for your almighty advice. Constructive comments, questions, or suggestions are welcome, but as I already stated, I am well capable of figuring things out on my own.
What I see as true arrogance is the feeling I get that some of you really think that I would have never moved on to a different TC if it weren't for the many months of nagging from a select few of you that I needed a different TC. THAT is true arrogance.
That is about the dumbest even more disrespectful thing yet.
NO ONE said "just throw a high stall torque convertor in it"
You were advised to call Dusty Bradford and have him spec a convertor
for YOUR application! Dusty would not have just walked to a shelf and grabbed a high stall convertor and sent it to you,Much thought would have went into what needed to be done to get your ultimate goal..
LOL Don,crickets chirp, we are all sitting back laughing at you!
Good grief. You think I don't know that? And I've already explained why I waited so long before deciding to make the change.
What was I supposed to tell him about the engine if I wasn't even sure yet myself? Do you even read what I post??? Sometimes you come off with the wierdest stuff.
I know Dusty's good, but he ain't that good to be able to supply me with the right TC without good info on my part. Maybe you should talk to Dusty first before you go talking for him.
LOL Don,crickets chirp, we are all sitting back laughing at you!
Laugh it up, fuzzball.
"Sticking with the tight TC for so long taught me a lot about the fuel map. Given the chance to explore the fuel map, I just refused to pass that opportunity up."
That same approach could have been used on more correctly matched converter as well. So I dont quite get that line of thought.
That same approach could have been used on more correctly matched converter as well. So I dont quite get that line of thought.
compression,cam specs,cubic inch, you had all the details needed to make the call
This is a good question. I've explained this before, but I'm happy to go over it again. It kinda follows the same reasoning that the different turbos loaded the fuel table at different points and allowed me to focus in on those different points better. If you're exploring a bump in the fueling table at 2500 rpm or so, and you're wondering how far up into the table it goes (more map), how would you load the engine to explore that region of the fuel map with a high stall TC? You can't.
This project is a project of learning, not of going straight to the racing trim with a sloppy fuel map and make just certain areas of the fuel map work for the purpose of WOT only. I wanted to explore the whole map, or as much of it as possible during the transition of parts (turbos, converters, whatever). It was a long haul spending a lot of time going over sections over and over again. I have no formal training on building fuel maps and basically learned it all by doing. School of hard knocks, but dang, you sure learn things well that way sometimes. Take the nitrous/meth als affect for instance. I pulled my hair out for almost a year trying to figure out what was going on there. I guarantee you all, no one has ever seen this type of thing before. And after it all, when I finally came to the realization of what I had discovered, it made all that time I spent on the fuel map worth it. I could sit there and say to myself, I had discovered a tuning phenomenon that no one else has ever seen or understood.
So you see, I wasn't just sitting in front of the TV twiddling my thumbs wondering if I should change the TC or not. I was frying bigger fish.
Do you know how nitrous with methanol works?!!! Do you know the full potential of a system like that?!!! Do you think you understand my configuration that well? I didn't even have the answers to those questions! And you think you did?!!!
NO!!! I didn't have all the answers yet! THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!
Compression, cam specs and cubes. That's it. You're kidding with me, right?
Otto, Otto, Otto. Leave the TC specing to the experts.
I have talked to Dusty a little in the past about my setup. He admitted he had little experience with a configuration like mine. It's like he already said. Take an educated stab at it and see what happens, and adjust from there.
All of those discoveries could have been made the same way with the properly matched converter. Just different mapping results.
You want to talk about disrespectful?!!!
I'm a transmission tech! Did you know that?! I understand the matching of TCs more than you, and I've put up with you trying to tell me that I need a higher stall? I bit my tongue all this time because I was preoccupied doing my own thing, and don't ask me to explain it again, please. I knew that after getting to understand the engine better and dialing in the fueling and nitrous injection that there was a good possibility that I would have to go higher with the stall, and I guess I should have cut you short way back then. But no. I let you keep reminding me that I needed a higher stall. Try to imagine how irritating that was.
It's like the carpet layer who is busy examining and repair the flooring in preparation of laying down carpet, and the homeowner is telling the carpet layer, "You just need to lay the carpet! You just need to lay the carpet!" The carpet layer, trying to be polite, just looks over at the homeowner and thinks to himself, 'what a nutcase'.
Sure, after the fact, it's very easy to say that. But, when you first see an unexplainable lean spike on the datalog, you're not really concerned in the least with the stall speed of the TC. You want to get to the bottom of the lean spike so that you don't possibly ruin an expensive engine. I would hope others would feel the same.
"Hey George, look at this lean signal when the nitrous hits."
"Ahhh, ignore it. Let's try a higher stall TC."
"Works for me, George."
Again, I have to ask, just how do you 'properly match' the TC before you know the engine? Isn't that kinda like the cart before the horse?
You'd be surprised. The fuel map doesn't change much after you have all the areas figured out. I could throw a low stall back in and not have to make a single change to the map. After installing the high stall, and with all the past relentless work I've done to the fuel map, 1 to 2 percent corrections here and there. Mostly areas that weren't being hit with the lower stall TC. It was actually refreshing to not need to work on the fuel table that much. All that past work, even though it was with the low stall, paid off big time. Now, the big headache is getting the boost controller dialed in. After that, playing with the boost levels and finding some limits.
"Sure, after the fact, it's very easy to say that. But, when you first see an unexplainable lean spike on the datalog, you're not really concerned in the least with the stall speed of the TC. You want to get to the bottom of the lean spike so that you don't possibly ruin an expensive engine. I would hope others would feel the same."
You very possibly could have experienced exactly the same scenario with the proper converter, or a rich spike for that matter. The point is your tune would still have to be adjusted either way.
You very possibly could have experienced exactly the same scenario with the proper converter, or a rich spike for that matter. The point is your tune would still have to be adjusted either way.
