Sad, GM to file for bankruptcy Monday 6/1/09

[TR Custom Parts]

UAW members approve General Motors concessions - Yahoo! News Maybe the union should have made concessions earlier???

Wonder how this will effect the future of any performance cars still being made. OR are we only going to be offered econoboxes. Think the Corvette will survive?

 

[Pronto]

There will still be performance cars! They sell alot of them. Hopefully there will be some new thinking from the top down. GM can make a car just as reliable and comfortable as any Jap or German, they just have to want to. It was too easy to just get by until the bottom fell out of the economy. Ford wised up and changed themselve and they still sell the Mustang...

 

[turbo39151]

I heard on the news that 3/4 of the UAW voted to take lower pay. I wonder what the other 1/4 was thinking? job vs. no job???

 

[TT/Ameasap]

Ford has had my respect (not the drivers) from the last depression. refusing that NRA bullcrap and coming out ok. They are doing the same thing this time around. Ford will dominate the domestic and Toyota will still be top dog. It has been proven for many years that Toyota is a superior vehical. Dont get me wrong tho. I love GM and Pontiac cars, but I know when to call it a spade.

Green is the new wave with this admin. They will however find a way to tax you on whatever they come up with. Ther is no way round it.


As for Gm bankrupcy... If your surprised , you probably were surprised when you got your 401k statement last year too.

 

[GNBRETT]

With Chapter 11 GM will still be in control of their company with oversight and jurisdiction from the court. Big difference between chapter 7 and 11. It's basically protection while they figure out how to clear up debt without being taken over.

Chapter 7 ceases buisness while they sell off assets to pay back creditors. That is not what GM is planning at this stage.

 

[Mike Licht]

I was told that one of the reasons Pontiac was killed was because of their "performance image" The Z/28 program has been killed and the C7 Corvette that will be in the new Transformers movie was recently killed. All due to goverment pressure. This info came from folks inside GM. The future for performance cars is not looking too good from my seat with the goverment owning over 70% of GM and wanting green, fuel efficent cars. Everyone wanted change......
Mike

 

[SS_Sean]

It's a very sad day indeed. All I see is a giant of industry now taken over by a socialist administration.

 

[toofastforyou]

It has been proven for many years that Toyota is a superior vehical.

That's an opinion...not an absolute fact...

Claude.

 

[Little6pack]

I just read they are going to PHASE out all SS models including the camaro.

No more Caddy, No more Pontiac.

Just NO FRILLS CARBOARD BOXES with BRIGGS & STRATTION motors.

 

[mygn276]

I was told that one of the reasons Pontiac was killed was because of their "performance image" The Z/28 program has been killed and the C7 Corvette that will be in the new Transformers movie was recently killed. All due to goverment pressure. This info came from folks inside GM. The future for performance cars is not looking too good from my seat with the goverment owning over 70% of GM and wanting green, fuel efficent cars. Everyone wanted change......
Mike

X2:frown:

 

[jasjamz]

I try to stay out of the political threads and the who's to blame ones also...but, I just want to add my two cents here. I don't feel we should blame the administration, the "green" people, or the foreign auto makers for this problem with the big three. I blame the heads of the "The Big Three". the suits and ties up top that price the Escalade at $70k, Tahoe at $50k and the Camaro at $35k. I was looking at a Hot Rod magazine ad from 1993 they showed the brand new V8 Firebird for $18k. 15 years later the Camaro will cost you twice that. Toyota didn't do that, nor did Obama, nor the guy on your block that recycles to help the environment. GM DID!!
I'm a bit on the younger side but how many of you are making twice as much money as you were in the mid 90's?? Look up the prices of cars in that era and compare them to now. 2008 Monte Carlo SS vs 1995 Monte Carlo Z34 another one that is twice as much for the same thing you get now... I'm sure I will find the same with Ford and Chrysler... Just my .02

 

[Pronto]

It's the job of the people at the top is to make sure that company is run right and is profitable. The blame lies solely with THEM. The worst of it is they knew they had to change the way they were running the company and refused. Something that at least Ford did something about. The UAW has been out of control for years and hurt profitablity but they arn't the ones making the decisions on marketing and designs.

 

[TT/Ameasap]

With Chapter 11 GM will still be in control of their company with oversight and jurisdiction from the court. Big difference between chapter 7 and 11. It's basically protection while they figure out how to clear up debt without being taken over.

Chapter 7 ceases buisness while they sell off assets to pay back creditors. That is not what GM is planning at this stage.

Hmmmmmm...Lets keep the management... Thats why they suck in the first place.

That's an opinion...not an absolute fact...

Claude.

Really it's a general consensus, so you could call it an opinion

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

I agree with most of the above and I have stated this earlier in another thread or in my inner circle....

With government involvement you can pretty much be assured we have seen the last of any muscle cars in a V8 format. This is especially true if companies have to accomplish the 35-36 mpg goal in 2016 or so.

It will probably take several years to turn it around before performance makes a come back....if at all in our life time.

The small silver lining in all this, is as a performance car owner, the values in our cars will surely rise maybe not over nite but I am betting it will happen.

Unfortunately, foreign car companies, don't have some of these issues and probably will see increased sales in some of their performance cars G37, Genesis Coupe, 370Z Audi etc and so on...

I could be wrong, but today you have 3 pony cars on the scene mustang-challenger-camaro be interesting to see if they are all on the scene a year or two from now.

Even the Corvette plant is not operating every week.

With the Government involved....a change is coming.....

Since we all donated almost 20 billion to GM....be nice if they still had a small performance group be allowed to work on a 3,000 lb 2 door coupe that could carry 4-5 people, turn 0-60 times in low 5 second times, and hit 35 mpg with rpms at 70 mph around 1,800 to 2,000 tops.

Ford seems to be in the best position of all....some potential new car buyers if they are on the fence about buying a GM product will probably buy a Ford once a decision is made later this coming week.

The trickle down affect is going to be enormous as smaller companies struggle to pick up other business to make up for all these problems and cutbacks...

Enough doom and gloom.....like I said the silver lining may be our cars increase in value due to supply and demand.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

Reminds me of the gas crisis in the mid 1970s.....I was buying nice original performance cars for $500 to a grand. Most I paid was 5 grand for a 22,000 mile original 1967 GTX Hemi car....I thought that was all the money in the world since I couldn't get high enough octane gas to even drive it on the street. I thought I hit the home run when I got 9 grand for it.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

They better not ditch Caddy and the Vette, it will be a lifeless/brandless company. Ditch all the heavy, ugly ass trucks/cars and watch profits come back with lighter and better looking designs.

Minimum wage was $4.25 in 1993, it's going to $7.25 in Sept, car prices are pretty in line with inflation.

 

[54Rich]

X2:frown:

I wonder if they will ever get and no wonder they are in trouble. The local dealer has 12 to 15 of the little **** boxes (Aveo or what ever they are called) lined up in the front row for all to see. Its been that way for a couple of weeks now. Of course None have sold or at least it doesn't look like they have moved any.

Then down the road is the Ford dealer, Mustangs and F150's line the front row. Always a different group in the front row.

Now that may be that Ford is selling cars or at least moving them around. Or it could be that I really do not pay attention to crappy little cars and could care less about them.

 

[whitehot1]

Who would have ever thought this could happen to a giant car company that has been in business for 101 years.

Even after the bankruptcy is done with, there is no guarantee that GM will be able to survive.

 

[rtviper]

I keep hearing it's the guys at the top that are responsible. They need new management etc. etc. My question is if GM was selling more and now as many cars as Toyota then what to you assign the losing money too? If they sell many more then Honda or Subaru why do they stll lose money.
Toyota makes a nice car and the camery was their top seller. The Camery at one time, last year had over 80% domestic parts in it. If it was the best quality using mostly domestic parts then why arent domestics similar. Obviously selling more cars isn't the answer. Been there done that.
I have an opinion as to why they are failing in spite of the sales numbers but am curious what others think. If you stll think it's managment then give an idea what they should have done?

 

[Rivical]

Toyota doesn't make a nice car. It makes reliable appliances for the transportation needs of it's customers. The Camry, as a car, sucks. As an appliance it's pretty darn nice. Look for this to be the wave @ GM. Except that Toyota and alla the other mfr's. know to also include performance variants and I've yet to see anything in writing about the future of these GM products. The new Camaro really blows the competition away. It'd be a shame to see it go away so quickly. And with the people in charge, I'd wonder if Buick stands to see anything interesting in their line-up either?

As to why GM failed? Aside from the usual answers, I'd blame the lag in public perception of quality. The same vehicle can and has gone up in quality of build in the past years and still the imports enjoy a perception of being better while that's no longer the case. America makes a competitive product. Nobody is interested though because they've grown accustomed to buying foreign.

 

[Pronto]

Funny thing is "foreign" now is mostly made in America! I was looking at a Nissan the other day. The sticker showed it was made in America. The transmission was from Japan.