Who Killed the Electric Car? GM??

smokin'6

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Apr 18, 2003
Has anyone seen this movie? Just watching it makes me say I'll never buy another GM product and shows the mentallity that has put them in the state they are in. And I was born and lived in Detroit for 28 years, vowing to never by an import.... hmm, second thoughts....
As I've always said, goes to show what our current government, and big business (read 'big oil'/Bush) will do to keep us and the enviroment screwed permanently. Enjoy your $50+ fill ups.
 
GM has made some mistakes but do you really believe that movie???

GM threw a BILLION dollars at the electric car and the range of the EV1 is what killed it. Usually less than 100 miles. In cold weather, cold start, full heat etc. the range of the EV1 was 12 miles!

Hybrids lose money for the OEMs and do not save the consumer $$ either. Buy a small car, or better a small diesel car or a bicycle if you want to save gas. Why do you think that hybrids struggle in Europe and Japan - because they already have small, fuel efficient cars.

Get the whole story and try not to base your life choices on a movie:rolleyes:
 
Actually many reports stated they actually spent 500 million to make the car, that they could call a failure. Its called protecting their interest in the cars they can make money on repairing again and again (gas cars) , you know, labor and parts. Brake parts and repair is a billion dollar a year industry alone. They lost 8.6 billion last year, do you think 500 mill affected them that much? GM put a substandard battery in it, buying controlling stock in the company that produced better batteries for it, then they put a lesser of a battery in it? Do some actual reading on it before you speak.
 
Has anyone seen this movie? Just watching it makes me say I'll never buy another GM product and shows the mentallity that has put them in the state they are in. And I was born and lived in Detroit for 28 years, vowing to never by an import.... hmm, second thoughts....
As I've always said, goes to show what our current government, and big business (read 'big oil'/Bush) will do to keep us and the enviroment screwed permanently. Enjoy your $50+ fill ups.


Can you tell me what the previous administration did to encourage hybrid technology?

You are an idiot!
 
If you beleive the BS than maybe you should be walking. The State of Kalifornia and technology, or the lack of technology killed the EV-1. We aint talking about Prius hybrids here. Hey GM is a business just like everything else. How in the heck are you going to gain any usable knowledge about an experimental car like the EV1 if you dont have absolute control over the "control" vehicles in your study. Retards who bought into that "shinny happy people" concept of a green Earth should have known better when they had to "lease" the cars instead of buying them. Thats part of the beef that the movie doesn't really dwell on. BTW GM made 100's of EV S-10 trucks and not one of those was leased from GM anyway. If you really beleive there is a conspiracy than why didn't GM crush those too? Plenty of unanswered questions about the program but I dont think the left wing slant of the movie is the difinative answer to those questions. Bunch of cry babies. GM tries to address a problem and they get hung out to dry by a bunch of idiots. The future of alternative fuel aint batteries. Those EV-1s could have been powered by nuclear reactors and the conclusion would have been the same. If you want to see what is go to GM Cars - General Motors Corporate Website - GM Customer Service and read about the upcoming hybrids from GM for the 08 model year.Click on media. It will make the Prius look like a Model A if your comparing technology. The future is hybrids and fuel cells. Not batteries. GM took a stand against the state of Kali and made the greenies blink first. Thats where the real story should be told. Answer this question. What other manufacturer sold EVs in the state during the same time? :mad:
 
If you beleive the BS than maybe you should be walking. The State of Kalifornia and technology, or the lack of technology killed the EV-1. We aint talking about Prius hybrids here. Hey GM is a business just like everything else. How in the heck are you going to gain any usable knowledge about an experimental car like the EV1 if you dont have absolute control over the "control" vehicles in your study. Retards who bought into that "shinny happy people" concept of a green Earth should have known better when they had to "lease" the cars instead of buying them. Thats part of the beef that the movie doesn't really dwell on. BTW GM made 100's of EV S-10 trucks and not one of those was leased from GM anyway. If you really beleive there is a conspiracy than why didn't GM crush those too? Plenty of unanswered questions about the program but I dont think the left wing slant of the movie is the difinative answer to those questions. Bunch of cry babies. GM tries to address a problem and they get hung out to dry by a bunch of idiots. The future of alternative fuel aint batteries. Those EV-1s could have been powered by nuclear reactors and the conclusion would have been the same. If you want to see what is go to GM Cars - General Motors Corporate Website - GM Customer Service and read about the upcoming hybrids from GM for the 08 model year.Click on media. It will make the Prius look like a Model A if your comparing technology. The future is hybrids and fuel cells. Not batteries. GM took a stand against the state of Kali and made the greenies blink first. Thats where the real story should be told. Answer this question. What other manufacturer sold EVs in the state during the same time? :mad:


Another bitter GM employee, well while he still has a job. And fuel cells are a pipe dream sold to sheep like you who keep waiting for something that is not coming in your lifetime. And to answer your question, Ford Think program sold EVs at the same time, and like GM they recalled and destroyed perfectly good cars at lease end, yeah that happens all the time nowadays. And the state of MICHIGAN- GM/Chrysler who sued California, along with the White House killed the EVs, not Cali, followed by GM/Ford/Chrysler going down the drain and dragging the state with em. Fortunately I got out before the flush, hence my house tripeling in value the last 4 years while Metro Detroit housing has 1 in 80 in foreclosure, with thousand of others giving their houses away. Does anybody on this board research before they start spewing **** out of their mouths? :p I love it, 'greenies', you must like paying out the ass for gas and one of those who say, 'oh, that whole global warming thing is blown way out of proportion', hard to believe you like looking this dumb.
 
I dont think the electic car are the solution ,but it was a start and for GM and the other Manuftures to take all the cars away and crush them just doesnt seem logical to me at all !!! Why did these Manufactures wait so fu-kn long to think more serious about hybids. They waited till gas reached $3.30 a gallon.F-ckn BS we are adicted to oil ,but we have no alternitive to go to .Everyone has there investements in the middle east
 
. The future is hybrids and fuel cells. Not batteries.


The main reason we have Hybirds is because of cars like the EV1. Forign auto makers started building them when they got wind of US auto makers moving towards electric cars. As for Fuel cells, thats a pipe dream and they know it...an Eric Wilson's misdirection tactic. The technology in barries has come a very long ways. I remember when I got into RC cars. You was lucky to get 5 minitues out of a stick of batteries. Now days you can get almost 30 minutes and running WOT. Sure it's a scaled down car but the physics is the same. America is the number one poluter of this Planet and people could give a **** less about that fact. We have the technology to improve it but people like Bush can't profit from it. It's insane how far behind we are because of that sad fact. They actually got ways of making clean burning diesel from coal...coal that we have plenty of here in the states. But no one wants to make it happen, they would rather invade some country for their oil. The reason the automakers wanted to destroy the EV1's in California is because everything always starts left and moves right. The Hipy movement didn't start at Wood stock, It started in Eugine Organ. Heck, I used to love it when they had Union strikes in Cali back working for a company owned by Ford. That ment we would get a raise also. It was a ripple effect.
 
i can see the future for my self.....i see....iseee.....i see 250 miles plus for 15$

i seee....isee....yes its all clear now, I drive a toyota prius. AND I F'ING LOVE TO FILL UP a tank for $25 and get 500miles out of it.

thats the future, and its here already for me rofl. 22k car with 45-50 mpg is pretty nice and definitly saves money. Im still in college though, so I drive everywhere. I got 56k miles on it already, its 2005 prius, and bought it new:biggrin: :biggrin: And this car destroys what you can get for 22k. It was basically 50mpg/prius or a 35mpg/civic. For 22,000$ it really is the best value for the money, but then again its definitly not a performer in any way shape or form...but thats not its job. the prius does ITS job! Provide 50mpg, safely and reliably!

Its really nice give my GN a rest, it was my daily.
 
I miss those EV1 cars. I worked at a Saturn dealer when they were around in the late 90's. Real cool cars. Fun to drive. They had instant torque. They topped out at 80mph. GM brought there yellow race version that had a land speed record of 180+ to our dealer. Remember the guy pulling it out of the trailer and he punched it ...spinning the tires for a good 50 ft. pretty neat technology.
 
Have not seen the movie so I can't comment but I thought this article was interesting. By the way, in case anyone was wondering, Mark Phelan, the author, like most auto industry experts who work for newspapers, is not necessarily a friend of GM. I remember the EV1 featured on national news back in the '90's. Maybe people in California do not watch TV.



Phelan: Electric Car Killer?
Detroit Free Press

By Mark Phelan

Dec. 20, 2006

GM got a raw deal.

It's the kind of thing you hear over dinner every week in Detroit, but it comes as a surprise when a top executive with Toyota leans across the table to make the point.

"The movie 'Who Killed the Electric Car?' was terribly one-sided," Ernest Bastien, Toyota Motor Sales vice president for vehicle operations, said intensely. "It was not balanced at all."

We were talking in Charlotte, N.C., a couple of weeks ago. I was there to drive Toyota's new 2007 Tundra pickup, and the change in topic was completely unexpected.

If it's not surprising enough to hear Toyota defending GM, try this on for size: The film's director pretty much agrees.

"We let Toyota off the hook for how they subverted the program" to sell electric cars because GM had a higher profile, director Chris Paine told me over the phone Sunday.

The automakers, of course, don't think they subverted anything.

GM's Saturn EV1 electric car and Toyota's RAV4-EV electric SUV failed for the same reason – customers didn't want them – said Bastien, who was point man for Toyota's short-lived effort to sell the RAV4-EV in California.

GM delivered about 800 EV1s to customers from 1996 through 2000, while Toyota delivered 342 RAV4-EVs in 2002-03.

The film, which suggested GM sabotaged a promising technology that could reduce fuel consumption and pollution, caused a furor when it was released earlier this year.

The movie also intentionally ignored Toyota's experience to make its case, Bastien said.

"We shared all our experience with the RAV4-EV," but the filmmakers intentionally omitted it, he said.

He said the movie's suggestion that GM "chose not to make money on a car people wanted to buy in California" is ridiculous.

"They spent a huge amount of money advertising that car in California," Bastien said. "People wouldn't buy them."

Toyota did everything it could to attract buyers to the RAV4-EV, too. It subsidized the price, so customers paid $279 a month – the same price as the company's hit Prius hybrid. The price included an expensive home charging station.

Toyota used the same savvy Internet-intensive marketing model that fueled the Prius craze. It even gave its dealers a sweetheart deal so they could make twice as much selling a RAV4-EV as a Prius.

To no avail. Toyota sold about 300 RAV4-EVs in 2002, compared with 20,119 Priuses. Buyers waited in line for the hybrid. They avoided the electric car like it was a downed power line and Toyota, like GM, pulled the plug on the project.

"Customers are not willing to compromise on things they need," Bastien said. "They need cruising range. They don't want to worry about running out of fuel, and they don't want to wait five hours to recharge. The movie didn't give any consideration to that fact."

Filmmaker Paine bought a RAV4-EV, but he's not buying Toyota's explanation.

"I don't agree that they made a good-faith effort to sell the car," he said. "Their priority was the Prius. The EV1 and RAV4-EV were never properly marketed.

" Toyota was no better than GM."

Which brings us back to the original question: Why was the movie so much harder on GM?

It made a better target.

"GM handled it so poorly," Paine said.

His crew filmed protesters outside Toyota's offices, but the company's security guards came out and gave them bottled water and Toyota key chains.

GM, Paine said, turned the water sprinklers on protesters. GM insists they were timed sprinklers, and the protesters just happened to be there at the wrong moment.

Whatever the case, the GM footage was more dramatic, entertaining video. It made it into the movie. Toyota wound up on the cutting-room floor. "I don't want to say that we picked on GM," Paine said. "The EV1 was the iconic electric vehicle. That's why we focused on GM."

Let me translate that: GM ended up in the crosshairs because it invested the most time and effort into its electric vehicle. The futuristic EV1 was designed from the start to be a revolution. It was the poster child for electric vehicles. The sedate RAV4-EV looked like just another small SUV.

GM declined to comment.

The nail that sticks up will be hammered down, as they say. GM was the nail. "Who Killed the Electric Car?" was the hammer.

And Ernest Bastien deserves credit for sticking up for the truth, regardless of hammers.
 
So all the Fossill Fuel companies buying out the Solar companies was probably a bad thing? :D

Let me say, judging by their presence, I would have to say wind energy is on its way. Though with some more technology solar could become competitive.

I seen the movie and i believe it ,it comes down to $$$$. Our GOV is a Bunch of ass wipes

You voted didn't you? Next time get some of your friends to go out and vote too. My grand father used to tell me, believe about 1/2 of what you read and none of what you hear.

The EV1 was killed off and sued by the Federal government with Bush in office *******, get a clue.

Another unsubstantiated claim of wrong doing by the President. Do you really think that office has that much power? There is a reason we have a congress and a judicial system. Balancing the power. I think you need to look deeper into how government works. As far as 'getting a clue', well I think you should also adhere to this advice.

Lastly, how do you think electricity used to power these vehicles is produced? I'll give you that natural gas is a clean burning fuel but the coal used is expensive to clean up after it is burned. Both of these are limited just like oil. I guess we should be looking at nuclear reactors but then there's the what to do with the remains problem but we can just bury them in the ground right?

No easy solutions and I don't claim to have one either. But blaming others for problems doesn't solve many problems does it? Pushing the problems forward to the next generation just increases the severity. Tough problems require tough solutions that aren't very popular some times.

That said will it pull my '28 toy box to the track and hold my 'pit crew'(wife and Four kids). I guess I'll keep driving my Suburban and racing my car. Works for me.
 
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