What's a Stage Motor Cost???

S

strikeeagle

New Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2001
OK gents,

Let's say I want to go 10 flat reliably. What does a stage motor cost? $5K (not likely), $10K, $15K, $20K??? No "I found this complete stage motor laying in a ditch outside my house" or "my buddy died and left me one" stories, please.

Just give me your best idea of what it truly costs, for the average, unconnected, John Q. Public, done right.

Thanks very much.
 
Here is one I can tell you about a local owner as I know personally concerning the costs. The stage I motor was bought complete with stock iron heads and a BG intake for $2500. This is accurate as I turned him on to it about 2 years ago.

It had been converted to 4 bolt mains and screwed up the block in the process. To get this mess straightened out, machine work, bearings rings, etc. $3000, oil system $1000 [Dutweiller pump, remote filter]. The 400 trans and converter was $1600 incl.
trans brake. the GN-1 heads and rockers account for $3000.

The additional parts, battery moved to trunk, rear end gear change, SFI balancer, roller cam, etc, add $5000. Not yet done with getting the car ready for low 10's, so more needs done. As you see, no labor other than machine shop is included.

So, our "bar room" estimating of doing a stage motor conversion of $15K seems to be close [maybe low?].
 
Stage 2 costs

I'm w/ Nick on this one!!:eek:

I spent $4500 for a complete engine w/ 9:1 heads, dry sump, etc.

Turbo pistons, brgs, rings,gaskets, etc = $1000.
Champ heads, rockers,port work= $2500.
Dutt oil system= $1000.
Engine block machine work=$1000.
Comp Cams BILLET roller kit=$1000.
BGC intake and 72# inj.=$1000.
Turbo big enuf to get the job done= $900.

Also, don't forget the rest of the "misc items" that Nick mentioned such as a tranny that'll hold up, a rearend and suspension that'll not break w/ a 20psi leave, headers that work,an I/C that's worth a damn, a fuel system to feed the added power!:eek:

THEN: when you get thrown off the track for going a 10 flat, you can buy and install a rollbar or cage for another $1500!!

The total "damage to the wallet" is an EASY $15,000.:p :p :p

AND, the ONLY way to do it right for that kind of bucks is to do ALOT of the work youself!! BTDT!!;)

Back under my stage 2, AGAIN!!:D :D
 
Cost

These are ballpark USED prices, if you had the TIME and PATIENCE to wait.

Block(Stage II 4.1, 4.020 or under): $2000-$2500, already ran all de-burring, clearancing, with lifter bores converted for hydrolic lifters, ready to assemble.
Crank(3.59-3.625 10/10): $1200-$1400
Rods(H-beam or I-beam): $650.00
Custom Pistons(JE or equivelent): $600.00
Used Heads(GN-1 ported w/T&D's): $2300.00
Billet Roller Cam Kit: $900.00
Timing cover(New): $125.00
Duttweiler system w/pan(Used): $600.00
Intake(match ported): $450.00
Machine work/assembly: $1000.00

Price for above work: $10,525, no injectors, no turbo, no fuel system, no Modded ECM, your stock headers will get you to low 10's. This uses highest prices in figures.
You can obviously see that there can be some savings on some items, but these are(in my opinion) realistic prices that can be obtained.


You can only split a penny so many times, I say if you can do it for under 10 grand and retain quality you are doing well.

Pretty sick to think about how much money we all throw around isn't it.


Ted
 
I passed you guys a long time ago in $$$$ but my mistakes was using an incompetent machinist who wouldn't stand behind his work. Find a good machinist and $15K will get you close engine wise.
 
Good machinist are like dollar bills in my pocket......getting hard to find around here:)
jay
 
I'm in for much less than the $ quoted so far, but
A) mine's not done yet and
B) I did almost all work so far myself.

I'm not going to spout any costs until I get it together.. :) Plus, all of the incidentals are adding up even though I'm a grinch; Ford 9", Felpro, yada yada. There are some things you just have to pony up and pay for.
 
I bought my s2 block and pistons for $1500 had it machined for $400. S2 intake $75 and modified it myself. The crank was $500 and balancing was $400. Rods $500. 70mm tb$300. Stage 2 heads $500. Turbo ,down pipe and race gate $1000. Stage 2 headers $200. Piston rings and wrist pins $300. Modified the stock pan $50 from a friend. Used balancer $50. Dry sump oiling $500. And a bunch of little things $1000. Tranny $600. Converter $300. Billet cam kit $1200. Fuel system $1300 and on and on. Now I'm depressed, But It runs good. $10675 and counting. Good luck Tim
 
Yea, Jay.. and you got a butcher machinist living right over in Palmetto who will swear up and down he's the greatest machinist to ever walk the face of the earth, screw up your engine then charge you to fix his own mistakes all with a straight face. Been there, done that.
 
I spent too much!!

I can easily come up with $20,000 worth of junk in my engine combination.

$6500 shortblock:
.....$3300 new block & crank
.....$1050 rods
.....$900 machine work
.....$700 pistons/rings
.....$550 blancer & flywheel, bearings
$1000 Billet Specialties pan & Duttweiler oil setup, turbo saver, etc..
$3000 Champion R heads (ported), T & D rockers, valve covers etc..
$1000 BGC intake (ported)
$1000 cam/lifters, pushrods, retainer, timing chain/cover, etc..
$1000 CAS intercooler
$2500 F.A.S.T. with injectors, etc...
$1000 ATR headers/downpipe
$1500 PT-88 turbo
$1000 for incidentals (Water pump, DIS-4, plug wires, etc..)
 
My bills at Duttweilers

Used busch short block $3500
Used Dry Sump $100
Danny Bee Belt Drive $1000
Custum Duttweiler Headers $1000
Used Hogan Intake $1500
Chapman CNC/ 340cfm plus and titanium everything $5000
160lbs injectors $500
Aluminum Dry sump pan $450
Electric Water pump $300
Fly wheel $250
Balancer $300
Speed Pro $2500
Turbo $1500
Wastgate $500
Intercooler $1500
Machining $1500
Assembly $750
Hoses and Fittings $750
Dry Sump can $400
Bolts and misc hardware $500
Dyno $1000

That is about $23,800

John Wilde
 
Re: My bills at Duttweilers

Originally posted by John Wilde

Machining $1500
Assembly $750
Dyno $1000

John Wilde
Click to expand...

That's pretty cheap, I never knew what he charged to build one of these. I imagined $3500 or so.

Dyno time is a great option, considering you get a running engine back and is properly tuned. Plus if it blows up on him while on the dyno, it won't be your problem.:)
 
aaahhh, confession is good for the soul ( if not the marriage)..anyone care to 'fess up what the average low 11 high 10 sec non stage car costs? I'll start the bidding at.....no I won't
 
Well since everyone is throwing in about every possible high$$ combos here.I'll chap some butts and throw in a budget buildup!:D
1st is to get a stage block(preferably a STGII off-center) price will average $2000 for the block.
2nd find a low mileage 84-87 production block.(I know of 4 complete blocks that have 40000 or less miles)
Take the internals out and have em magged,if good then get a set of TRW or JE pistons(JEs will require a rebalance of rotating assembly)I would recommend using a standard crank not a cut one.recondition the rods,then assemble the short block.
Get a set of ported GN1s port a stock 86-87 intake,hell even a set of reconditioned stock headers will take you to low 10.s
with an offcenter STG2 you dont need Dutweilers oiling system or a high $$ pan a stock 84-85 14 bolt pan will work fine.you can easily fab your own pick up by cutting a stock pick up then welding it to a pre bent pipe thats attached to the provision at the inside front of the block.(VERY EASY)
A Flat tappet cam will work just fine,55#-65# injectors will be needed along with a double pumper or equivalent.and a set of motor mounts from Paul Ferry.the stock balancer and flexplate will work to.but would only cost less than $600 to step up to SFI approved ones.Turbo would be in the TE45-T66 depending on the weight of the car.
Now before anyone gets bent,consider all the guys that have run low 10s and even 9.9s on the stock block,crank and rods.9 times out of 10 what usually failed 1st? The Block! not the rods or crank,and if the crank usually failed it was usually due to excessive cap walk. I think a well prepared STG2 off-center using stock internals - the pistons would be reliable to 660-700HP in a lighter TR if kept under 5500 rpms as well,They have proven to be many times before.even a girdled stock block will have cylinder wall failure before the crank and rods fail.
The final cost would be around $8000,if you already had a good donor production motor. this would get you low 10s.
most of you guys that have the high $$ equipment in and on your stage blocks run much faster than low 10s and produce 800,900,1000+HP where these parts are mandatory and give you plenty of room to grow and of course PIECE OF MIND!;)
This reply was just to add something to the list and maybe some debate.:)
 
Originally posted by LikeMy6
Well since everyone is throwing in about every possible high$$ combos here.I'll chap some butts and throw in a budget buildup....

.....The final cost would be around $8000,if you already had a good donor production motor. this would get you low 10s.
most of you guys that have the high $$ equipment
Click to expand...

I am impressed! I'll take an $8000 Stage II build up and have about 3 more guys also want them. When can you deliver?

Don't know who you are, but tell me how many stage motors you have built or worked with at $8000? I don't think your post will get anyone upset, maybe they will laugh a little! EVERY motor I have done always costs more than estimated. Of course we insist it be done to very high standards. Don't think TRW pistons and a flat tappet cam [unless it is a solid lifter type] would be appropiate in a stage block designed to go fast. Half of your $8k budget is going to the alum heads, porting, roller rockers and valve covers. Don't think "budget build up" belongs in a Stage motor estimate any more the "budget roller cam" fits anywhere.


The original post asked "what's a stage motor cost", not a guesstimate! Some very credible people have done just that, quoting what their actual costs were. No one is even close to your figure. Like to keep things in the proper perspective.
 
Nick you dont have to get upset!
I posted an alternative to the expensive route,as for P&P GN1s I can get a set for $2300+230 for rockers $150 for covers +$80 for pushrods=$2760 total ,STG2 off-center with self made pickup and stock 84-85 turbo pan $2200 I have access to very low milage complete production motors so for me that cost is N/A,machine work roughly $1000, TRW pistons & rings $450,Motor mounts $170 for a total of $6580 my cost.
As for durability the stock crank and rods have proven reliable up to 700 HP in a lighter TR. Look at Geno hes run 9.90s without breaking the rotating assembly just the blocks main webbing.hence using a stage2 off center block running those times would prove to be possible.For how long I cant say but possible,Geno stated he ran low 10s for around 2 years before the block gave up after 4- 9 second passes.
also down here in west palm beach we have a guy named Orlando Granada running 10.0s with the 90% factory longblock including stock pistons!
I was just giving a cost effective way to the mentaly insane:D
 
Originally posted by LikeMy6
Nick you dont have to get upset!
I posted an alternative to the expensive route,as for P&P GN1s I can get a set for $2300+230 for rockers $150 for covers +$80 for pushrods=$2760 total ,STG2 off-center with self made pickup and stock 84-85 turbo pan $2200 I have access to very low milage complete production motors so for me that cost is N/A,machine work roughly $1000, TRW pistons & rings $450,Motor mounts $170 for a total of $6580 my cost.
As for durability the stock crank and rods have proven reliable up to 700 HP in a lighter TR. Look at Geno hes run 9.90s without breaking the rotating assembly just the blocks main webbing.hence using a stage2 off center block running those times would prove to be possible.For how long I cant say but possible,Geno stated he ran low 10s for around 2 years before the block gave up after 4- 9 second passes.
also down here in west palm beach we have a guy named Orlando Granada running 10.0s with the 90% factory longblock including stock pistons!
I was just giving a cost effective way to the mentaly insane:D
Click to expand...


Why bother with the stage II block then? The intent of building a Stage II engine is to be able to have a bullet proof engine that you don't do twice. Girdle the stock block and run it to the levels you intended. Why destroy a $2200 block because a "cheaper" part broke? It's like wiping 1/2 your A$$...... it's just not right. I'd be embarrased while I had a bucket and a shovel and was scooping up the remains of the engine in front of everybody.

I believe the Stage II engines will retain almost all of their value in the end, so ultimately what will it cost you when you decide to sell down the road? A beat up stocker is next to worthless in the end.

Yes, I am mentally insane, as most of the other people in this forum.

No flames toward you, as I have thought of this a hundred times. Speed costs money, do it right, spend the money, and forget you ever did. It's the only way I live with this.


:)
 
Ted I dont dispute the cost or the desicion on installing the bullet proof parts that 99.9% of all who own a stage motor do.I just was making an observation and suggestion since strikeeagle only suggested a 10 flat 1/4 time! and in a middle weight TR that only means 680HP and at that level stock blocks are very marginal even girdled blocks end up having upper block failure eventually. I mean it isnt even recommended to bore it more than 30 over!
With that in mind whats wrong with using a stage block Ive seen many use stage1 blocks with production rods and crank and get low 10s for years.,whats the difference if one was to use a off-center stage2 for the same thing? if low 10s were your only goal of course!
Has anyone ever hear of Frederic Breitwieser?
He has done many engine dyno runs testing the limits of production Buick parts.His findings are interesting 1st off the tests were conducted with zero knock meaning no destructive detonation but only sheer power to break the parts.1 of his tests I read about listed his test motor as a Buick 1980 4.1 v6, 1981 4.1 fillet crank, 1986 3.8 FWD heads (P&P) Wiseco pistons, 1981 4.1 rods ,compression was 9.8:1
this engine held up to 700Hp@5700 & 790ftlbs with no problems when he went higher to 6100rpms it made 840HP & 890ft/lbs when the block broke taking a rod and the crank out with it.
again to run low 10s 660HP-700Hp is all that is needed. if built right the factory rods and crank are sufficient,but I wouldnt go any farther because pushing a broom down the track would suck!
:p
 
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