what went wrong!!!!!!! pinched steel caps
- Thread starter TURBOGTA1
- Start date
there are so many machine shops that think they know what they are doing. But if you ask them how many buick turbo 6s they assembled many of them will say thoudsands. Most don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. Get Russ to build you a a good motor. Sue that machine shop that misassembled your motor.
Lee Thompson
New Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
get a witness
Have a couple guys go with you and ask the current shop what they see as to the chain of events that happened to your eng.
Load it up and take it to a rep. BUICK shop and ask them what they think went wrong. May or may not do you any good except for piece of mind. I had a short block built by a local shop that was recommended by a V-8 Buick friend, years ago. I later found they torqued the mains to 140 ft. lbs. After 20 min. breakin time it spun the # 2 cam bearing. Dumb ass me paid the fools to line bore the cam journals and install oversized bearings and it spun it again. I got no satisfaction. To this day (that was 12 years ago)
I tell everyone I meet or if the shops name comes up how they messed my eng. up and refused to make it right. **** like this and a flame about 3 ft. high, burn my ass. I know it hurts.
Have a couple guys go with you and ask the current shop what they see as to the chain of events that happened to your eng.
Load it up and take it to a rep. BUICK shop and ask them what they think went wrong. May or may not do you any good except for piece of mind. I had a short block built by a local shop that was recommended by a V-8 Buick friend, years ago. I later found they torqued the mains to 140 ft. lbs. After 20 min. breakin time it spun the # 2 cam bearing. Dumb ass me paid the fools to line bore the cam journals and install oversized bearings and it spun it again. I got no satisfaction. To this day (that was 12 years ago)
I tell everyone I meet or if the shops name comes up how they messed my eng. up and refused to make it right. **** like this and a flame about 3 ft. high, burn my ass. I know it hurts.
Sounds like the line bore wasnt right, or it was set up loose and the crank wobbled. Or, could the crank have been bent/damaged???
Another theory is the knock sensor was too tight/loose and didnt "hear" it detonating. That would explain top ring damage too. But typically you'd lose the ring land too. DO you see scoffing on the piston skirts? What was yer AF set to under the conditions of your couple highway passes? Is it possible the stroke was wrong and the pistons were tapping the heads or something weird like that? I mean, the heads arent gonna move, so the only other direction is out the bottom...pounding out the main caps... but you'd see something on the rods so I doubt that theory.. I still say line nore/clearance issue... pushing it too hard you;d see evidence on the rod bearings too.
Does the BS3 have knock control? I didnt know that, sounds like a nice box.
I'd contact Bob @ RPE or get with Danny Smith in south Jersey, who did mine and many of my friends for a proper build...then send the bill to the guy who screwed it up.
Another theory is the knock sensor was too tight/loose and didnt "hear" it detonating. That would explain top ring damage too. But typically you'd lose the ring land too. DO you see scoffing on the piston skirts? What was yer AF set to under the conditions of your couple highway passes? Is it possible the stroke was wrong and the pistons were tapping the heads or something weird like that? I mean, the heads arent gonna move, so the only other direction is out the bottom...pounding out the main caps... but you'd see something on the rods so I doubt that theory.. I still say line nore/clearance issue... pushing it too hard you;d see evidence on the rod bearings too.
Does the BS3 have knock control? I didnt know that, sounds like a nice box.
I'd contact Bob @ RPE or get with Danny Smith in south Jersey, who did mine and many of my friends for a proper build...then send the bill to the guy who screwed it up.
87buick3825
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2004
I hate reading stuff like this 
good luck the second time around !!
good luck the second time around !!Russ Merritt
New Member
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2002
I figured Bob was the closest to him. I know he's always busy. If he can't help you out Mike in a reasonable amount of time, the machine shop I use up here will do it for you. Reids Automotive, Whitman Ma 781-857-2500. They do all my machine work from stockers to girdled 109 blocks. They can handle your job no sweat. You just need to make the trip or ship it to them. I have their address if you want it. With the girdle, run the stock caps.
Is it std practice to have diff clearances with steel caps? Man, it sure sounds like a botched line bore.... it bowed in the middle by your numbers...even moreso if they measured with plastigage!
And I thought spec was .0015? or was it .00015 I get the decimal mixed up.....
83ttypecooled
Active Member
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2003
Hi ,
Do yourself a favor, get a machinist who knows what he is doing next time. Sorry about your situation...
Dale
Do yourself a favor, get a machinist who knows what he is doing next time. Sorry about your situation...
Dale
If you honestly can say that you never got on it and pushed the motor, then it was the machinist's fault.
Being a former engine builder, I can tell you how to handle this.
Dont say anything more to this guy. Be nice. Go pick up your engine. Take it to a pro who can identify what happened and why. Get the analysis on paper, and fax it to the moron engine builder. If it turns out it was his fault, then threaten to tie him up in court if he doesnt refund the cost of all the damaged components, and the cost of his labor.
How long has this shop been in business?
Who at the shop did the machining on the block?
What type of equipment does he use? is the equipment all old and beat up? Are the floors all greasy and is there grinding dust settled all over everything? Do they assemble the motors in a clean room?
Did they do a square deck on the block? Sometimes a machinist will goof up and not tell his boss. By the time the **** hits the fan, its too late. If they went to a zero deck, the rods could have stretched, and the pistons would have smacked the heads. Then the mains would have tacoed. Does it look like the pistons hit?
By the way, those main specs are not only all over the place, but they are way off. Every main should be within a couple tenths of one another, and not be out of round by more than .0005
Being a former engine builder, I can tell you how to handle this.
Dont say anything more to this guy. Be nice. Go pick up your engine. Take it to a pro who can identify what happened and why. Get the analysis on paper, and fax it to the moron engine builder. If it turns out it was his fault, then threaten to tie him up in court if he doesnt refund the cost of all the damaged components, and the cost of his labor.
How long has this shop been in business?
Who at the shop did the machining on the block?
What type of equipment does he use? is the equipment all old and beat up? Are the floors all greasy and is there grinding dust settled all over everything? Do they assemble the motors in a clean room?
Did they do a square deck on the block? Sometimes a machinist will goof up and not tell his boss. By the time the **** hits the fan, its too late. If they went to a zero deck, the rods could have stretched, and the pistons would have smacked the heads. Then the mains would have tacoed. Does it look like the pistons hit?
By the way, those main specs are not only all over the place, but they are way off. Every main should be within a couple tenths of one another, and not be out of round by more than .0005
MOTOR IS GOING TO BOB AT RPE FOR THE RITE JOB DONE THIS TIME!!!!!!!!! THE PREVIOUS BUILDER SAYS MY COMBO WAS JUST TOO MUCH!! LOOK ON THE BOTTOM LINE AND LOOK WHAT I GOT AND YOU TELL ME THIS COMBO IS GONNA WIPE OUT ALL MAIN BEARINGS AND TWIST ALL THREE STEEL CAPS NEVER GOING OVER 15psi OF BOOST. I HAD A LOCAL GUY LOOK OVER MY PARTS AND HE AGREED THAT THERE WAS A MACHINE/CLEARANCE PROBLEM. I WILL WAIT FOR BOB TO TEAR INTO THE MOTOR AND SEE. AT THAT POINT I WILL POST THE NAMES OF THE SHOP AND TAKE LEGAL ACTION!!!!! THANKS TO ALL FOR THE INPUT!!!!
Robert Wilson
Member
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
TURBOGTA1,
I hate to admit it but I have bent more than 1 set of steel main caps. Granted I was running 25psi+ and cranking 6000rpm. I also doubt this would have happened if my block was not o- ringed (head gasket would have failed). My car never showed signs of excessive knock (direct scan) when this happened even though ESC system checks out.
To check if the caps are bent, you can check by laying a straight edge along the block mating surface of the cap and look for daylight. If the straight edge only touches the outside edges the cap is bent. If the caps are flat yet don't fit tightly in the block, then you have improper machine work.
I would have someone look at your pistons tops and spark plugs for signs of detonation.
What fuel were you running with your 15 psi burst? What A/F ratio was your Big Stuff programmed to?
Robert
I hate to admit it but I have bent more than 1 set of steel main caps. Granted I was running 25psi+ and cranking 6000rpm. I also doubt this would have happened if my block was not o- ringed (head gasket would have failed). My car never showed signs of excessive knock (direct scan) when this happened even though ESC system checks out.
To check if the caps are bent, you can check by laying a straight edge along the block mating surface of the cap and look for daylight. If the straight edge only touches the outside edges the cap is bent. If the caps are flat yet don't fit tightly in the block, then you have improper machine work.
I would have someone look at your pistons tops and spark plugs for signs of detonation.
What fuel were you running with your 15 psi burst? What A/F ratio was your Big Stuff programmed to?
Robert
I sure hope so ted, I was hoping to get a mid 10 sec pass off my combo, that would make me a very happy guy
i spoke with bob at rpe 2 weeks ago, and now I cant seem to get a hold of him, and he is not returning messages.
Anyone know Dan smith of Camden N.J !!!!!! he was highly recommended by a few people to do my motor over, and I just spoke to him, and he is willing to slot me in to do my motor.
just doing some homework this time around!!! Need the rite job done this time
LET ME KNOW!!!! thanks
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