what went wrong!!!!!!! pinched steel caps

T

TURBOGTA1

Life is Sweet !!!
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Virgin 109 block with eagle crank 010, je pistons 020 over, 1-2-3 billet caps, champion iron's with 1007 o'ring gaskets, 70gt q trim turbo, big stuff 3 computer system, 212/212 hydr/roller cam, 700 miles on motor, been running 14-15lbs of boost, and havnt been above that!! i have a casper's audio/visual knock detector that is sensitive,and hasnt gone off till trouble's erupted!!!!! i was on a nice parkway and had the motor up to about 4800 rpm, backed off, cruised then back up,and held it there breifly, and then knock detector went off, i looked at oil press,and down to 20psi and dropping, i immed. shut down and coasted to the side, restarted, and motor and was knocking. I towed back and ripped apart, to find head gaskets like new, pistons looking great,nice movement side to side,(RINGS NOT FROZEN) as well as spark plugs looked great,# 23 autolites, front main spun, and the rest of the mains wiped and about to spin. the 3 billet caps actually pinched!!like the crank was trying to blow out the bottom!! rod bearings were all good!!! i cant understand!!!! i gave motor back to machinist after talking to different members on this board running hard, and would agree there was a machining/clearance problem on the caps!!!! this motor is suppose to handle a lot more than this!!!! the machinist is telling me when fully disassmebled, there was almost no top ring left on all the pistons and i was just pushing too much air(70-TURBO) thru the motor and blew it!!!!
just doesnt make sense!!! GUYS, PLEASE GIVE ME SOME FEEDBACK, PHONE #'S AND ANY INFO!!! NOT ONLY DO I HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WENT WRONG, BUT I NEED TO GET THIS MOTOR BACK TOGETHER,AND MAKE SURE THIS DONT HAPPEN AGAIN!!!! DONT THINK IM GONNA USE THE SAME GUY,AND NEED TO FIND SOMEONE TO GET ME BACK ON THE ROAD!!!!
PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!
 
pinched

Don/t quite understand what you mean by pinched. Are you saying upon teardown the caps were loose in the block?
 
The mechanic was almost right. You were making more power than his limited skills as an engine builder could support. Lots of possibilities. One is that the main studs were not properly tightened. Hard to believe that the top rings could be gone, with the pistons still looking good from the top. Of course, we don't know what kind of rings they were- could be cheap rings? It sounds like some detonation got things started, although the knock detector could have been set off by the engine failure.
 
Not sure what you mean by pinched, either. It almost sounds as if the caps weren't tightened down properly, or they were improperly machined. Or, the crank was bent. I assume studs and not bolts were used to hold it all down, and that you or your machinist checked the bores for roundness when you mocked it up on the stand after torquing it all down without the crank in there. It sounds like you had good oil pressure up to the point of failure.

I know it sounds stupid, but you did have the block align bored with these new caps on, right?

If you can post some pics up, especially of the mating surfaces on the block and caps, as well as a pic of the spun front bearing, that would be helpful.

Sorry to hear this has happened to you. The combo sounds very strong, and it almost seems like a machining or assembly problem rather than you running it hard and detonating it, etc..

Pics would be great

Billy
Montgomery Village, MD
 
Lee, thats exactly what i mean, there was 15,000 clearence of slop cap to block clearence with all 3 steel caps in place, and on 1 cap, you can actually see it by eye when laying it on a peice of straight edge!!! the caps actually bowed out!!! The rings were also from JE, i have not yet to see the rings for my self what they look like, hard to beleive!!! the eagle crank was new out of the box,cut and balanced. I had no engine vibration what so ever!!!!! oil pressure was about 70psi cold, and never went below 20psi idling in park at 850rpm's and 18psi in gear after coming back from a nice drive.as soon as you tapped the gas,press. was back up to 50+psi. I was running a new gm front cover with high volume pump. at first when i still had the motor in the car and didnt now what was going on, he thought that i would have bad rod bearings due to oiling problem being on the parkway at 4800 rpm;s and sucked the oil rite out of the bottom of the engine!!!! until i took it apart!!!!!! I just havnt even come close to running this motor to what it should be capable of doing, and need to find out!!! i changed the oil at 100 miles, and again at 500 miles. ive been babying the car!!!!!
 
Def a machining problem. If you bent a billet cap enough you can see it with your eye..........You have big problems that should be easy to find. I hope all works out for ya bud....
 
WOW!!!

The caps actually bent or bowed? Not doubting your word, but unless they were made out of beer cans, it would take a sledge hammer to bent a billet cap. What brand cap?

Now, getting a shop to do the right thing and admit they made an error, is going to be fun. Best of luck to you.
 
Originally posted by TURBOGTA1
.............. the eagle crank was new out of the box,cut and balanced. I had no engine vibration what so ever!!!!! ......
Click to expand...

What harmonic balancer was installed, BHJ?
 
BILLET STEEL CAPS FROM A VENDOR ON THIS BOARD, AND YOUR RITE ABOUT THAT, THE SHOP IS SAYING MY COMBO IS TOO MUCH FOR THE MOTOR, AND I BLEW IT!!IT WOULD BE MORE CONVINCING IF I WAS RUNNING 30PSI OF BOOST AND SHIFTING AT 7000 RPM'S AFTER QUITE A FEW PASSES, BUT NOT THE CASE!!
MOTOR HASNT SEEN PAST 15PSI OF BOOST YET!!!! AND THIS HAPPENED ON THE PARKWAY AT 4800 RPM.
 
NICK I INSTALLED A BHJ BALANCER WITH A JW FLYWHEEL!!!!!
Nick, I need all the help i can get!! spent the last year getting this thing together, and now this!! i am in N.Y, and need to get this block back going!! i am not gonna pay this guy again to repair the motor!!! I really think he did something wrong. no abuse what so ever, was just putting some miles on it and waiting to get it to the track, and never made it!! this time with a girdle as well.
 
Stock setup is externally balanced, EAGLE crank requires internal balance. Was this done?
 
It sounds like the machine shop did not line bore the caps properly. The line bore was out of round, looking at what your oil pressure is you should have had around 25-35 psi hot on a new motor. Those new eagle cranks have tight clearences.
What was the clearence on the rods and mains before you assembled the block?

Also if your top rings were worn out you would be able to see massive scuffing in all six cylinders. What was the ring clearence when the rings were installed? As all this should have been written down. I know JE rings have to be filed to get the right gap.

Sorry to hear of your motor problem.
 
YES LEE, THE SHOP DID ALL THE MACHINE/ASSEMBLE WORK, I GOT THE MOTOR BACK FULLY ASSEMBLED WITH INTAKE READY TO INSTALL!!! I REPRIMED THE MOTOR WITH ALL LINES INSTALL, AND HAD OIL PRESS. OF 40-50PSI BEFORE MY DRILL STARTED TO SMOKE!!!! REINSTALLED CAM SENSOR, SET IT WITH MY ATR TIMING DOCTOR, AND FIRED RITE UP!! NOT TO MENTION CHANGING EVERY SENSOR ON THE MOTOR WITH NEW GM INCLUDING MODULE/COIL. NOT AN ORIGINAL SENSOR ON THE CAR. WASNT LEAVING ANY ROOM FOR ERROR!! IN FACT, I JUST GOT A CALL FROM THE GUY, AND HE SAID THAT IT IS NOT ANY OF THERE FAULT OF DAMAGE, AND WANTS ALMOST $3,000 TO PUT BACK TOGETHER WITH NEW STEEL CAPS,AND A GIRDLE THIS TIME AROUND!!!! I DONT THINK SO!!!!!!!:mad: AND LIKE I SAID BEFORE,I COULD HAVE EXCEPTED THIS RUNNING 25-30psi OF BOOST SHIFTING AT 6500-7000 RPMS OVER AND OVER, BUT MOTOR NOT SEEING OVER 15psi AND BLOWING AT 4800 RPM'S ON THE PARKWAY (not 1 launch/track run) SOMETHING JUST WASNT RITE!!!!!!!! NOW I NEED THE RITE PERSON TO GET IT BACK TOGETHER FOR ME!!!!!! HELPPPPP
 
:( I feel your pain bud........One reason I like assembling all my own engines. Classic that they claim it's your fault.......
 
Turbogta, was that you that I spoke to at Randys Performance?? I was talking toa guy there who had the same problem. If you looking for an awesome builder go to RPE to CT. he kicks but and awesome rep, honesty.

good luck\
Ralph
 
RALPH, THAT WAS ME AT RANDY'S!!!! I GOT RPE'S # FROM RUSS MERRIT. ILL BE GIVING THEM A CALL
MIKE
 
If Bob at RPE cant get you in soon enough call Jack Cotton He has an alternate builder that is currently doing a similar build up for me .
 
WOW, that is funny, hahaha. Do yourself a favor and go to RPE, he is awesome. I wish you the best of luck and I know things will be fixed the right way if you go to him. He built my motor 3 years ago and still running great.


Ralph
 
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