What are the advantages to coil-on-plug compare to distributor.

[chris kirk]

I'm getting reading to have motor put in my car. I have a T/A aluminum stroker motor with FAST XFI engine management system. I will be using E85 fuel. I would like to know the advantages and disadvantages (excluding cost) for using xim coil-on-plug or a distributor and msd coil.

 

[TurboSmart]

Subscribed

 

[Boost231]

Is that the only options your looking into? What about the TR6.

 

[toofastforyou]

I have a friend ("MAXSIX" on this board) who tried such a setup which he got from a very well known Fast XFI Buick tuner and he ended up melting some pistons. He had to have his stage 2 engine rebuilt at his own expense (of course…) and went back to the good old stock ignition system. Apparently he gave the coil-on-plug system back to that tuner guy and he wasn't even offered any compensation even though he installed following his recommendation…Nice isn't it?…
I've always preferred to "keep it simple" and not trying to "fix" it if it works fine.

Claude

 

[six is enough]

Same thing happened to me only differance was they melted it down twice. Gave the xim away and went to distributor and have not looked back. Yes I had to pay for both rebuilds also.

 

[norbs]

I can see the tune causing melted pistons not because you change ignition systems... XIM =$ less wearing parts over a distrbutor and less EMF noise,..

 

[bison]

I have a friend ("MAXSIX" on this board) who tried such a setup which he got from a very well known Fast XFI Buick tuner and he ended up melting some pistons. He had to have his stage 2 engine rebuilt at his own expense (of course…) and went back to the good old stock ignition system. Apparently he gave the coil-on-plug system back to that tuner guy and he wasn't even offered any compensation even though he installed following his recommendation…Nice isn't it?…
I've always preferred to "keep it simple" and not trying to "fix" it if it works fine.

Claude

So it must have been the xim coil on plug setup that caused the engine failure?Roll eyes


BPE2013@hotmail.com

 

[bison]

Plenty of cars flying using an xim. It's not for most and will certainly deliver a much better spark than stock and is easily setup for various rev limitation. Using the wrong coils could cost you big time though. A distributior is great also and can deliver potentially an even better spark with some aftermarket ignition systems but could be in the way. It also has to be phased correctly and can have spark scatter issues. The wires can be more of a pain with a distributor also.


BPE2013@hotmail.com

 

[rag231]

Subscribed!

 

[toofastforyou]

So it must have been the xim coil on plug setup that caused the engine failure?Roll eyes

Yes.
Claude.

 

[bison]

Yes.
Claude.

I doubt it


BPE2013@hotmail.com

 

[Nick Micale]

Chris, I will give you my opinion as I have personally used all 3 options.

My race car has a distributor with an MSD 7AL-2 and has worked great for years in a competition environment, and when I converted from 116 octane race fuel to e-85, it never missed a beat.

When I converted one of my street cars with an engine almost the same as the race car, an XFI, but TE-45A instead of a 70mm turbo, it would not reach 15 PSI?

Tried lots of stuff for months and finally installed a TR6 which absolutely cured the problem.

My experience with XIM when first tried it was disastrous and caused 2 engine rebuilds. This race car got a distributor. I know Cal has some different parts and methods from those days so they do work better now.

Since I know your car was not built as a competition track car, I would take the simple path and go with a TR6.

 

[Jcotton]

For the record, if we lose spark to a cylinder, we have unburned fuel. Most FAST systems are set up in closed loop. Unburned fuel detected by the WBO2, tells the computer there is a rich condition, which in turn the FAST pulls fuel from the program. Unfortunately the computer has no idea what cylinder is rich, so the fuel is pulled from all the cylinders.... hence we now have a lean condition. Take a stock ignition and pull a plug wire on a 800hp plus car, if you stay into it long enough, ugly stuff can happen....

Jack C.

 

[turbobitt]

I asked the same questions a while ago in this thread.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/xim-cop-bb-cop-distributer-what-works-best.403528/

I ultimately went with the XIM because of seamless integration with the XFI. I really don't have room for a distributer and not really big on the distributer idea since I drive it on the street often and afraid of the cap becoming a maintenance item.
I think a close second choice would be the BB ignition module but I think I would use the new Cal Hartline box to allow the XFI to handle the 2-step and rev limiting features although the BB box can do that. My preference is to have everything or at least as much as possible captured in the tune file so there is always a record of what was run at a particular time. Having the XIM also makes everything accessible to the laptop and changes as easy as a keystroke.
For me, I tried not to let cost be a factor and focused only on the features I was interested in. I know I could have saved a few $$ by going distributer but decided against it.

Allan G.

 

[bison]

For the record, if we lose spark to a cylinder, we have unburned fuel. Most FAST systems are set up in closed loop. Unburned fuel detected by the WBO2, tells the computer there is a rich condition, which in turn the FAST pulls fuel from the program. Unfortunately the computer has no idea what cylinder is rich, so the fuel is pulled from all the cylinders.... hence we now have a lean condition. Take a stock ignition and pull a plug wire on a 800hp plus car, if you stay into it long enough, ugly stuff can happen....

Jack C.

The negative fuel correction should be set low to minimize this.


BPE2013@hotmail.com

 

[HighPSI]

I have a friend ("MAXSIX" on this board) who tried such a setup which he got from a very well known Fast XFI Buick tuner and he ended up melting some pistons. He had to have his stage 2 engine rebuilt at his own expense (of course…) and went back to the good old stock ignition system. Apparently he gave the coil-on-plug system back to that tuner guy and he wasn't even offered any compensation even though he installed following his recommendation…Nice isn't it?…
I've always preferred to "keep it simple" and not trying to "fix" it if it works fine.

Claude

Your story has quite a slant to it. perhaps we let MAXSIX post up. The cnp set up came from me, unfortunately there were OTHER problems with his car (bad injector wire, etc...)which also included two bad coils on the cnp setup.

I have sold nearly fifty CNP setups with only a couple glitches. Nearly all of them can be traced to bad coils. I later switched to another style coil and haven't had any problems. The other problem involved the dwell setting which was incorporated into an xfi update a couple years ago.

 

[HighPSI]

My experience with XIM when first tried it was disastrous and caused 2 engine rebuilds. This race car got a distributor. I know Cal has some different parts and methods from those days so they do work better now.

It should be noted, this was not my cnp setup. It was built by someone else.

 

[Jerryl]

For the record, if we lose spark to a cylinder, we have unburned fuel. Most FAST systems are set up in closed loop. Unburned fuel detected by the WBO2, tells the computer there is a rich condition, which in turn the FAST pulls fuel from the program. .........

Jack C.

Hi Jack,
Thought an ignition misfire results in a "lean reading" by the WB because the sensor reads the unburned oxygen, and computer adds fuel if in CL. (?)

 

[chris kirk]

It should be noted, this was not my cnp setup. It was built by someone else.

Cal, I have heard great things about your set-up. As well as Bob Baily's TR6. I'm sure you don't remember but we briefly spoke back in the winter time about your XIM set-up. I thought my car was going to be finished in March (frame restoration) that's why I was inquiring about it, then. After we spoke, Dale Cherry also told me great things about your set-up and advised that it's a very good option over a distributor. Also, I originally did not mention Bob Baily's TR6 because I thought it could not be used with XFI, but now that Nick has told me that it can, then it's definitely an option.

 

[chris kirk]

I have a friend ("MAXSIX" on this board) who tried such a setup which he got from a very well known Fast XFI Buick tuner and he ended up melting some pistons. He had to have his stage 2 engine rebuilt at his own expense (of course…) and went back to the good old stock ignition system. Apparently he gave the coil-on-plug system back to that tuner guy and he wasn't even offered any compensation even though he installed following his recommendation…Nice isn't it?…
I've always preferred to "keep it simple" and not trying to "fix" it if it works fine.

Claude

So would it be fair to say that you recommend me staying with the stock ignition? I realize the stock ignition is pretty good and that plenty of people are going pretty fast with it, but I've been told by more then a few people that using 160lb injectors with a big Weldon pump and burning E85 might not be the wisest decision. But, I appreciate your advise.