wastegate puck stuck...again!!

T

turbocvc

Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
I had purchased a used stainless steel 3" DP a while back from a local turbo buick shop here in town. The previous owner upgraded to a 3.5" with his new exhaust and wanted to get rid of the 3" so I picked it up for a pretty good deal. He said it was an ATR pipe, I can't tell the difference. Anyways, the puck was a little sticky when I first got it. I didn't think it would matter much but once it was on the car and got hot, the puck would start to either stay stuck and overboost or open up and not build enough boost. Needless to say the car has been parked for a good 6 months.

Fast forward to a few weeks ago, I decided to get a replacement puck from RJC which was all stainless steel and repair it myself. I cut the old pin off and had a buddy with a drill press take out the old sleeve with a 1/2" bit. Got the new stainless sleeve in flange and put a weld on the outer sleeve. Put the new puck in and weld on the puck's handle with a little less than 1/8" of play.

The puck swings freely with just a tap of the fingers against it. Well got it put back on the car this weekend and took it for a spin. First 15 mins all was good, then all of a sudden boost would spike to 20+ pounds like it did before. Got home let it cool down, and low and behold, the thing is stuck again. I couldn't even move the puck with my hands. I had to pull it off the turbo and tap the puck down gently from the inside to get it to slightly move. Sprayed it with WD40 and now its all loose and swings freely like its suppose to. What did I do wrong? Why is it still sticking even with the new stainless piece. Anyone with this issue, how did you fix it? Below are some pics of it puck and how much play it has going up and down.

turbocvc-albums-wastegate-puck-picture603-dsc-1104.jpg


turbocvc-albums-wastegate-puck-picture602-dsc-1103.jpg
 
atrs were known for sticking many years ago
back then it was a pain but being in NJ a trip to meases shop and he would get you fixed right up

buddy of mine bought a car with an atr that hadnt been fixed so it would stick when hot
cut off the old and installed the rjc puck kit
seemed to work flawless off the car
soon after running WOT it stuck as you described

i ended up removing the rjc valve and drilling the sleeve oversize and then reassembling ( :mad: could have done this without using a 75.00 kit)
ideally the sleeve metal choice needs to be changed

that car went to texas shortly after the fix so i cant say how long drilling it out worked or if it fixed it for good
 
turbo nasty said:
DP and Exh parts
Click to expand...

and your post means ..WHAT????.....

we know rjc makes it
as he posted he tried it ....it didnt work
i posted i tried the rjc ... it failed as its made

so ????........please clarify

the bushing shouldnt have been made of stainless , it should have been iconel ,
the china pipes used all stainless but they also clearanced the shaft ..so much so that the puck flops around so much its nearly impossible to keep it over a properly ported wastegate hole, the ones that dont slop around you can bet they will seize up when hot just like the ATRs did
 
There doesn't need to be any more answers. Pacecarta hit the nail on the head. It's never the rod. It's the sleeve the rod rotates in. Yank it, drill it out a little, and reinstall. Done. Over.
Get a dp, and just stare at the wastegate. Play with it a little, you'll see what I'm talking about.
 
had the same problem with the one from azgn.

he claimed he gets his from same place.

I stopped f*cking with the thing and went external. It gets old pulling the dp off and trying to get the thing to swing!!! This includes drilling out the hole and cleaning the heck out of all parts. It swings for a while, until a few heat cycles, then seizes up.
 
Well, if he purchased a part from Jason and it did not fix the issue then either the entire piece was not replaced, or the part Jason is selling needs to be addressed, that is why i suggested he called Jason to get this lined out.

If a product is available and is not a complete fix for the issue, then we need to let the seller know about it.

I had mine fixed at ATR, pipe is over 10 years old and no issues after the fix before they closed.

BW
 
qwks6 said:
had the same problem with the one from azgn.

he claimed he gets his from same place.

I stopped f*cking with the thing and went external. It gets old pulling the dp off and trying to get the thing to swing!!! This includes drilling out the hole and cleaning the heck out of all parts. It swings for a while, until a few heat cycles, then seizes up.
Click to expand...
Can you convert an internal to an external downpipe???
 
yeah

either get jasons plate to cover the puck hole or tap a freze plug into it
get some short lengths of tube (some 90s too) then weld an external gate inlet off your header (under the turbo). weld on a flange , then do same for the outlet from the gate back to the down pipe

ebay sells kits that have tubes and flanges that might make it easier for a DIYer and most gates come with the flanges they require

or sell the internal and use the cash to get an external pipe with a gate like the old atrs were
im running an atr SS 3" ext with 40mm HKS gate and a 3" cottons MS external with tail 38 gate
but when the turbos get big and your moving a lot of air you need a gate over 40mm then the tube off the header will work better at controlling boost since you can flow more air then through a ported housing,... time for a custom external setup
 
Quick6'n'-K.C. said:
Well, if he purchased a part from Jason and it did not fix the issue then either the entire piece was not replaced, or the part Jason is selling needs to be addressed, that is why i suggested he called Jason to get this lined out.

If a product is available and is not a complete fix for the issue, then we need to let the seller know about it.

I had mine fixed at ATR, pipe is over 10 years old and no issues after the fix before they closed.

BW
Click to expand...

Thats the problem, I replaced the whole assembly, sleeve, rod, handle and all. It didn't fix the issue. I'll give them a call and see what happens. This sux, I was hoping it would be all good as searching past posts that this was the solution for a binding puck. I did notice on the old pipe that the sleeve was brass or something, it was soft and breaking off when I tried tapping it out. I ended up drilling it all out to replace it with the RJC sleeve. I thought I did something wrong but it's straight forward install, but since others have tried with no luck I don't feel some dumb:confused:.
 
1st off you do not need to use an inconel sleeve. The 304 stainless sleeve and pin work out just fine. We have built and sold literally hundreds of these and never had a single one stick ever. Why? Several things can go wrong when installing these pucks parts themselves.

the first mistake people make is with the sleeve. The sleeve has a .318 hole and the shaft is .313. this is more than enough clearance to keep away any binding between the two pieces. but not loose enough to be sloppy like the cheap china pipes. Galling is not an issue because the pieces do not rotate enough and are not a tight enough fit to make that happen. What happens most of the time is the person who installs it pounds it in with a hammer and either makes the hole out of round or dings the sleeve in some way causing a very tight slip fit. This will not work this way. This is the problem we have here. After reading the post you should not have to "tap" your finger on it to make it swing freely. It should swing freely with just the weight of the flapper.

2nd. you should have between .030-.060 end clearance when welding the arm on the shaft. this allows the shaft to float and clean itself preventing it from being clogged with soot or contaminants.

3rd. adding additional lubricants. The temperature at this junction will only cook in the shaft collecting contaminants and eventually causing it to loose mobility. They are designed to be run dry.

if you follow these steps then you will not have a single problem. if yours is sticking then grind off the lever arm and make the bushing round again by running a letter 8.1mm or if you cant find one of those a "P" drill trough the bushing. then weld it back together leaving end play and you will not have any problems.

Next time any of you have any questions or problems with any RJC parts you can call me or e-mail me and get the correct advise or post here and get..... you know.

and the WG assy is $55 not $75
 
Race Jace said:
1st off you do not need to use an inconel sleeve. The 304 stainless sleeve and pin work out just fine. We have built and sold literally hundreds of these and never had a single one stick ever. Why? Several things can go wrong when installing these pucks parts themselves.

the first mistake people make is with the sleeve. The sleeve has a .318 hole and the shaft is .313. this is more than enough clearance to keep away any binding between the two pieces. but not loose enough to be sloppy like the cheap china pipes. Galling is not an issue because the pieces do not rotate enough and are not a tight enough fit to make that happen. What happens most of the time is the person who installs it pounds it in with a hammer and either makes the hole out of round or dings the sleeve in some way causing a very tight slip fit. This will not work this way. This is the problem we have here. After reading the post you should not have to "tap" your finger on it to make it swing freely. It should swing freely with just the weight of the flapper.

2nd. you should have between .030-.060 end clearance when welding the arm on the shaft. this allows the shaft to float and clean itself preventing it from being clogged with soot or contaminants.

3rd. adding additional lubricants. The temperature at this junction will only cook in the shaft collecting contaminants and eventually causing it to loose mobility. They are designed to be run dry.

if you follow these steps then you will not have a single problem. if yours is sticking then grind off the lever arm and make the bushing round again by running a letter 8.1mm or if you cant find one of those a "P" drill trough the bushing. then weld it back together leaving end play and you will not have any problems.

Next time any of you have any questions or problems with any RJC parts you can call me or e-mail me and get the correct advise or post here and get..... you know.

and the WG assy is $55 not $75
Click to expand...

I did not hammer the sleeve into the pipe during the install, I simply pressed it in with my fingers and gently tapped it into place with a rubber mallet before the weld. Also when I said 'tap' the puck with my fingers to move it, I meant that with the pipe still on the car, the position it was in you had to move the arm so that the weight of the puck would move from gravity, yes it did move freely when it was off the car with the weight of the puck itself. I only sprayed lubricant to get it loose again once it was stuck. The pics in the original post shows in still on the car after I got it loose again. I'm not bashing your product in any way shape or form, just wanted to know what went wrong.

And yes the assembly is $55 and after shipping it was close to $70.
 
Race Jace said:
1st off you do not need to use an inconel sleeve. The 304 stainless sleeve and pin work out just fine. We have built and sold literally hundreds of these and never had a single one stick ever. Why? Several things can go wrong when installing these pucks parts themselves.

the first mistake people make is with the sleeve. The sleeve has a .318 hole and the shaft is .313. this is more than enough clearance to keep away any binding between the two pieces. but not loose enough to be sloppy like the cheap china pipes. Galling is not an issue because the pieces do not rotate enough and are not a tight enough fit to make that happen. What happens most of the time is the person who installs it pounds it in with a hammer and either makes the hole out of round or dings the sleeve in some way causing a very tight slip fit. This will not work this way. This is the problem we have here. After reading the post you should not have to "tap" your finger on it to make it swing freely. It should swing freely with just the weight of the flapper.

2nd. you should have between .030-.060 end clearance when welding the arm on the shaft. this allows the shaft to float and clean itself preventing it from being clogged with soot or contaminants.

3rd. adding additional lubricants. The temperature at this junction will only cook in the shaft collecting contaminants and eventually causing it to loose mobility. They are designed to be run dry.

if you follow these steps then you will not have a single problem. if yours is sticking then grind off the lever arm and make the bushing round again by running a letter 8.1mm or if you cant find one of those a "P" drill trough the bushing. then weld it back together leaving end play and you will not have any problems.

Next time any of you have any questions or problems with any RJC parts you can call me or e-mail me and get the correct advise or post here and get..... you know.

and the WG assy is $55 not $75
Click to expand...

Great post that just clarified everything. Ive fixed several dp's over the years that had stainless sleeves and they never seized again. I used a reamer to make the hole round and smooth and reinstalled the swing valve with no lubricants. Sometimes the ...you know is very entertaining:biggrin:
 
turbocvc said:
I did not hammer the sleeve into the pipe during the install, I simply pressed it in with my fingers and gently tapped it into place with a rubber mallet before the weld. Also when I said 'tap' the puck with my fingers to move it, I meant that with the pipe still on the car, the position it was in you had to move the arm so that the weight of the puck would move from gravity, yes it did move freely when it was off the car with the weight of the puck itself. I only sprayed lubricant to get it loose again once it was stuck. The pics in the original post shows in still on the car after I got it loose again. I'm not bashing your product in any way shape or form, just wanted to know what went wrong.

And yes the assembly is $55 and after shipping it was close to $70.
Click to expand...

After its welded in run a reamer through it
 
I had this problem with a pipe I had tried awhile back. the puck would stick no matter what.

it turned out that when the turbo was upgraded, the stock wastegate actuator no longer fit with the exsisting bracket. after tack welding it and drilling a hole, it fit.

the problem was that the actuator wasnt exactly right and caused the flapper to bind in the hole when hooked up. almost impossible to notice until I happenend to be checking the actuator...

might be a place to check?

just an idea.

A.j.
 
dr_frankenstein said:
I had this problem with a pipe I had tried awhile back. the puck would stick no matter what.

it turned out that when the turbo was upgraded, the stock wastegate actuator no longer fit with the exsisting bracket. after tack welding it and drilling a hole, it fit.

the problem was that the actuator wasnt exactly right and caused the flapper to bind in the hole when hooked up. almost impossible to notice until I happenend to be checking the actuator...

might be a place to check?

just an idea.
A.j.
Click to expand...

not the case here , the issue was the shaft binding in the bushing

jason posted why and i appreciate him taking the time to explain

i can also assure you the bushing was not hammered in , after drilling the 1/2 hole i actually opened the hole in the flange so only the last 1/16 or so even grabbed ( ) , didnt take much to seat it and i did use driver when i tapped it in
bottom line is after install the puck swung freely , after one WOT you couldnt move it
in the future i would run a bit through after install to add a little more than the .005 clearance he claims there needs to be , didnt measure mine but i will next time ,

and like above its 55 at your doorstep in utah .. not mine in NJ
 
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