wanted; pix of a frame notch
- Thread starter 3f87x2m
- Start date
Making Boost
QIKAZEL
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2006
Search it. There are tons of pics. I have 325/50/15's on mine with a frame notch only.
With a notch to the mid frame seam you can fit a 15x10 wheel with 5in BS. A 325/50 should fit just fine. You must watch the notch towards the tail pipe area. There things get tight and you muct notch deeper than the frame seam.
blackmonte
New HP Technology !!!
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2007
1987 Buick Grand National Upgrades - GM High-Tech Performanc Magazine cotton's had some nice pictures and read up.
blackmonte
New HP Technology !!!
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2007
Not going to get into it but the main Idea was to show a frame notch and besides the rotted inner fender wells and the hammer work it looks good to me?
This is really the only write up I have ever seen. Do you have any better write ups? I'd like to read a few different opinions before I do mine.
Sam Colalillo
low 9's w/ a 109
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2005
Look pretty good to me. Can you post some pictures of your work. I think he is after some more photos of frames that have been notched.
I will be notching my car soon. I'm surprised a 325 would with just a notch to the seam. If I were to do that would I be able to tuck the tires in the wheel well ? I think I might need more notch and more back spacing to achieve the look I'm after.
That was directed more at the magazine than at you, sorry for the misunderstanding. The magazines used to have higher standards.
I used to have pictures of mine up on the board. They are probably long gone and the car and the frame are gone as well. I'll see if I can dig up some pics and scan them in.
No, it's not good work at all.
First, hammering rusty inner fenders is nothing more than a hack job at best. There are much better solutions, and yes they cost more, by why would you ever beat rusty fenders in with a hammer. If you wanted to get out of it cheap you could just as easily have bent the lip back or cut it completely off and run a seam weld between the trunk floor and inner fender from inside the trunk. The inner fender itself can be relieved with the right amount of heat and pressure, no sledge hammer required and a much cleaner solution.
Next, there is no pre-weld metal prep what so ever. They just welded right over all the scale, rust and other contaminates. While mig welds are somewhat more tolerant of contaminated surfaces than tig welds, there is no doubt that if the proper settings were used, undercoating and other crap was pulled in from the back side of the welded material. This results in a wholly inadequate joining of the materials
Furthermore, the weld penetration is poor at best and the inside plates have way to much weld. The stock frame material is extremely soft and too much heat will only serve to weaken it further.
Finally, the plates they used to reinforce the frame in this area will only help in the vertical plane. This is a street car and race car and it is highly likely that it will experience significant lateral loading if it ever gets out of shape on the street or track. If he ever has to really drive the car to get out of trouble the reduced lateral stiffness at the back of the car is going to hurt it's ability to react efficiently.
I don't have many pictures of my Buick any more, but I can post some pictures of the stuff I work on now or email some to you if you are interested. For some other pics you can also check out our website at:
Fischer Motorsports
Chris Skarzenski
Turbo1dr
9 Sec Wanna-Be
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
I notched my frame. Ya, I know....it's a Malibu BUT it's the same process as a Regal. Here is a picture of 28x10.5 M/T slicks installed. I do have the outer fender lip removed.
The first picture shows where I made the cut down the frame. You can see the black line.
After completing the job: 15x9's with a 5.5" back space. Tires are 28x10.5 M/T slicks.
Inside view:
Brief write-up found here.
The first picture shows where I made the cut down the frame. You can see the black line.
After completing the job: 15x9's with a 5.5" back space. Tires are 28x10.5 M/T slicks.
Inside view:
Brief write-up found here.
blackmonte
New HP Technology !!!
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2007
Yes, it was only to show how they used a plasma cutter and re-welded the plate back in place and filled the notched area. As far as using a car anything less than rust free in my opinion is useless , and using a hammer to bring the inner fender to line up with the new notched area is not how I would do it either . But it was used as a demonstration and it was all I had to show on a notched frame. And your Fab work looks top notch, As far as the welds go it's questionable it's like Paul JR. he knows how to weld but are adequate. Thanks
Sam Colalillo
low 9's w/ a 109
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2005
Chris,
That Ferrari is a BAD A$$ car!!!!!!!!!!! What did that thing run in the 1/4 mile?
How many hours do you have in getting that starter housing welded to that mid plate? That is impressive I made my own midplate and have a decent amount of time invested in the midplate, I cant imagine the amount of time it would take to get a started housing built into the midplate. Nice job.
In regards to the GM Hitech article. This was a 19 year old rusted out Buick at the time they started on it. The article mentions nothing about the extra frame gussets that are on the car which will help with the lateral loading placed up on the chassis. I agree with you GM high Tech some times does not use good judgement when preparing an article, but I think we should take it easy on picking on a shop for taking on a rusted out 19 year old car. I saw this car in Indy at IRP they repaired the rusted out wheel well by cutting all the cancer out and welding new metal in. I did not see where they welded to rust when putting the inner reinforcement in the frame or when they welded the outside section of the frame in place. I really do think they did a pretty good job exspecially when you consider what the budget was and what they had to start with. I admit wacking the inner fenders in with a hammer is a little crazy but if this guys wanted to run the highly recognized TSM class he can not weld new minitubs into the car as they are prohibited by the rules.
Any way those are some really nice cars you are building but they are in a totally different league. Its got to feel good to be able to have a job like that everyday. Congrats to you!.
Sam
That Ferrari is a BAD A$$ car!!!!!!!!!!! What did that thing run in the 1/4 mile?
How many hours do you have in getting that starter housing welded to that mid plate? That is impressive I made my own midplate and have a decent amount of time invested in the midplate, I cant imagine the amount of time it would take to get a started housing built into the midplate. Nice job.
In regards to the GM Hitech article. This was a 19 year old rusted out Buick at the time they started on it. The article mentions nothing about the extra frame gussets that are on the car which will help with the lateral loading placed up on the chassis. I agree with you GM high Tech some times does not use good judgement when preparing an article, but I think we should take it easy on picking on a shop for taking on a rusted out 19 year old car. I saw this car in Indy at IRP they repaired the rusted out wheel well by cutting all the cancer out and welding new metal in. I did not see where they welded to rust when putting the inner reinforcement in the frame or when they welded the outside section of the frame in place. I really do think they did a pretty good job exspecially when you consider what the budget was and what they had to start with. I admit wacking the inner fenders in with a hammer is a little crazy but if this guys wanted to run the highly recognized TSM class he can not weld new minitubs into the car as they are prohibited by the rules.
Any way those are some really nice cars you are building but they are in a totally different league. Its got to feel good to be able to have a job like that everyday. Congrats to you!.
Sam
The GMHTP link no loger works for me so I am now going from memory. If you remember the patch plate he was cutting to fit inside the frame rails, you would notice it had a good amount of surface rust and mill scale. It is very important to remove all scale and surface rust prior to welding because the inclusion of it in welded joints will result in contamination and the formation of inter metallics. Inter metallics are very brittle and therefore severely weaken a welded joint. With the shock loads such that the rear suspension of a drag racing vehicle sees, this can be extremely dangerous.
My educated guess would be that the parts of the frame they welded have less than 25% of the parent material strength, which is very low to begin with. I take safety very seriously and I would never put anyone behind the wheel of, or on the track with, that car. Will it work, probably, but I would never bet someones life on it.
I am assuming you are referring to the "288" car. If so pictures can be very deceiving. When the pictures were taken it was anything but nice.
That car is a Bonneville salt flats car. It was designed to be the worlds fastest Ferrari and run 300+mph. It was built many years ago, but it never put down the number. It would run into the high 200's and then loose it. After a near 300mph spin the driver, a good friend of mine, said never again. It was originally built by another shop and is currently being restored and modified by Texas Restomods for another shot at 300+mph. We are supplying some parts, technical guidance and tuning assistance. No Ferrari engine could support the kind of power needed to run over 300mph so it has a 511 BBC with twin turbos. It puts just over 2k hp to the ground with a mild tune (big boost on alcohol).
We are involved with the project because Texas Restomods is a close friend and partner of ours and we build reproduction Ferrari 288GTO's. That car is a 308 coupe that sports a complete body made from our tooling.
I can't say how many hours are in the mid plate starter mount at that point as I was not the one building that part, but it was not a lot. Just looking at it, the prep and welding probably took a half hour tops. Most everything we do is drawn up before hand so it takes a lot of time out of the fabrication side of things. A good 3D solid model, a water jet and a cnc mill make life much easier.
Chris Skarzenski
My educated guess would be that the parts of the frame they welded have less than 25% of the parent material strength, which is very low to begin with. I take safety very seriously and I would never put anyone behind the wheel of, or on the track with, that car. Will it work, probably, but I would never bet someones life on it.
I am assuming you are referring to the "288" car. If so pictures can be very deceiving. When the pictures were taken it was anything but nice.
That car is a Bonneville salt flats car. It was designed to be the worlds fastest Ferrari and run 300+mph. It was built many years ago, but it never put down the number. It would run into the high 200's and then loose it. After a near 300mph spin the driver, a good friend of mine, said never again. It was originally built by another shop and is currently being restored and modified by Texas Restomods for another shot at 300+mph. We are supplying some parts, technical guidance and tuning assistance. No Ferrari engine could support the kind of power needed to run over 300mph so it has a 511 BBC with twin turbos. It puts just over 2k hp to the ground with a mild tune (big boost on alcohol).
We are involved with the project because Texas Restomods is a close friend and partner of ours and we build reproduction Ferrari 288GTO's. That car is a 308 coupe that sports a complete body made from our tooling.
I can't say how many hours are in the mid plate starter mount at that point as I was not the one building that part, but it was not a lot. Just looking at it, the prep and welding probably took a half hour tops. Most everything we do is drawn up before hand so it takes a lot of time out of the fabrication side of things. A good 3D solid model, a water jet and a cnc mill make life much easier.
Chris Skarzenski
BetMinesFaster
Turbo LSX Trader
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2007
Here are pictures and a small writeup of the frame notch I did on my car:
Frame Notch
These are the tires & wheels that went on:
Wheels & Tires
Hope that helps,
-Banning.
Frame Notch
These are the tires & wheels that went on:
Wheels & Tires
Hope that helps,
-Banning.
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