want a 1911.. help needed
- Thread starter tonys87
- Start date
Spoolin Hooligan
Off the wagon Boost Addict
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2011
tonys87 said:
The 2 tone e series from S&W is nice but its like $1200
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
Ah yes, 1911's, my other addiction.
As much as I love Paras (Owned 4 in the past) I do not recommend them as your first 1911. They can be finicky and have been know to have extractor problems with their PXT extractor. So much so, that just this year, they switched over all of their designs to use a standard HD extractor. Over the years they have gotten a bad rep for the little issues, but most have been cured with simple fixes. However, I would definitely rate them better than a Kimber. That particular Para you spoke of, is not your ordinary garden variety 1911. It is a double stack 14+1 round full size pistol with target sights and alot of accessories, when compared to a normal Government model full size 1911. Magazines will cost more than your standard full size or compact size 1911.
Here are some questions that need to be answered first, as there are buku amounts of 1911 pistols on the market today.
- Budget? Are we talking minimum $500-$650? Or unlimited?
That Para you were looking at, the SX1445S has a MSRP of $1289. For that kind of money, there are a lot of better options out there. Don't let the guy at the gun store up sell you on something that you really don't need, just because that is all he has in stock.
- Will this be used for range fun, self defense, concealed carry, or home defense?
Range and home defense are perfectly fine for a full size 5" 1911. But concealing a full size can be difficult.
- Do you have any semi automatic pistol shooting fundamentals or experience?
If you do, then learning the 1911 is not that hard. However, if you have none and are a revolver skills only type, it can be challenging. The 1911 has many parts and a more complicated break down/field strip method than your average Glock. Not impossible, but can be frustrating if you are just learning. Not all 1911s are created the same. Some have traditional guide rod/barrel bushing and spring combination, others have a one piece guide rod setup that requires a special tool or paper clip for disassembly.
When I worked at my local gun store selling firearms, here is the grading scale I used for 1911 pistols, from lower tier to top tier. Some might call BS on me labeling Kimber as lower tier, but with all of the out of box issues I witnessed first hand like, rusty barrels, failure to load, failure to eject and broken parts within the first 100 rounds, it got to where this store would not even order Kimbers for stock unless someone specifically just had to have one. My personal list goes in order from worse to best and is just my opinion based on hands on experience.
Lower tier:
Kimber
Llama
Remington
American Tactical
GSG
American Classic
Metro Arms
ATI
Mid tier:
Taurus
ARMSCOR
Regent
Citadel
Rock Island Armory
Ruger SR1911
Para USA
Sig Sauer
Smith & Wesson
Springfield Armory
STI
Colt
Top tier:
Dan Wesson
Caspian Arms
Les Baer
Fusion Firearms
Nighthawk Custom
Wilson Combat
Ed Brown
There are some really good books out there that are must have books about 1911 pistols. Here they are.
And this website is the best on the internet when it comes to 1911 pistols. I highly recommend reading up and checking out all the hundreds and hundreds of different models available.
http://forums.1911forum.com/
My personal choices for your first full size 1911, depending on budget are as follows.
$450-$600 Budget
1. Rock Island Armory, 2. Citadel, 3. ARMSCOR
$700-$900 Budget
1. Springfield Armory, 2. Ruger SR1911, 3. Smith & Wesson
$999-$1,600 Budget
1. Dan Wesson, 2. Colt, 3. STI
Unlimited Budget
1. Dan Wesson, 2. Ed Brown, 3. Wilson Combat
Yeah, kinda partial to Dan Wesson pistols if you couldn't tell. You get a lot of 1911 for the money with their products. Also, use Youtube to learn more about a specific model that you find, before you buy. There are literally tens of thousands of videos on 1911 pistols on youtube. Over the past 8 years, I myself was on a 1911 kick. Looking at my records, I went through 14 pistols before I finally settled on my two that I have now. If I would have known now, what I didn't know then, I would have made a Dan Wesson my second 1911 and been done. But you gotta crawl before you can walk. The best advice I can give you is, go to many different gun stores, handle as many different model 1911's as you can and you start to get a feel for them. The differences in grips, grip lengths, control differences, weight differences, sights, etc etc etc. Just for record here are some basics.
Full Size Government model 1911 characterisitics:
- 5" barrel
- Full size grip frame in either steel or aluminum with typical full size grips
- 7 or 8 round magazine
- 32 - 40 oz weight unloaded, depending on make and model
Commander model 1911 characteristics:
- 4.5" - 4" length barrel depending on make and model, but mainly 4.25" for original Commanders.
- Full size grip frame in either steel or aluminum with full size or thin grips
- 7 or 8 round magazine
- 30- 36 oz weight unloaded, depending on make and model
CCO or Concealed Carry Officer model 1911 characteristics:
- 4.25" - 4" length barrel
- Officer size grip frame in aluminum with thin grips
- 6 or 7 round magazine
- 26 - 32 oz weight unloaded, depending on make and model
- Dan Wesson made the CCO model popular as well as Colt with their CCO Talo Edition.
Officer Compact model 1911 characteristics:
- 3.5" - 3" length barrel
- Officer size grip frame in steel or aluminum with thin grips or thick grips
- 6 or 7 round magazine
- 25 - 28 oz weight unloaded, depending on make and model
- Colt, STI, Kimber, Springfield, Dan Wesson, Rock Island Armory, Citadel, Para, Smith & Wesson, and all the Top Tier companies make Officer models.
Hybrids:
Smith & Wesson makes a hybrid that I have not seen by any other, but I'm sure someone else makes it as well. But it is a Full size grip frame with an Officer Compact size barrel and slide in their Pro series pistols. Para makes double stack models that hold 14 rounds and use Para specific magazines. STI also makes double stack models. STI and Rock River Arms offer polymer frame 1911's but no eta on the RRA models.
Hope some of this helps.
Patrick
- 1911 BRING ENOUGH HANDGUN -
As much as I love Paras (Owned 4 in the past) I do not recommend them as your first 1911. They can be finicky and have been know to have extractor problems with their PXT extractor. So much so, that just this year, they switched over all of their designs to use a standard HD extractor. Over the years they have gotten a bad rep for the little issues, but most have been cured with simple fixes. However, I would definitely rate them better than a Kimber. That particular Para you spoke of, is not your ordinary garden variety 1911. It is a double stack 14+1 round full size pistol with target sights and alot of accessories, when compared to a normal Government model full size 1911. Magazines will cost more than your standard full size or compact size 1911.
Here are some questions that need to be answered first, as there are buku amounts of 1911 pistols on the market today.
- Budget? Are we talking minimum $500-$650? Or unlimited?
That Para you were looking at, the SX1445S has a MSRP of $1289. For that kind of money, there are a lot of better options out there. Don't let the guy at the gun store up sell you on something that you really don't need, just because that is all he has in stock.
- Will this be used for range fun, self defense, concealed carry, or home defense?
Range and home defense are perfectly fine for a full size 5" 1911. But concealing a full size can be difficult.
- Do you have any semi automatic pistol shooting fundamentals or experience?
If you do, then learning the 1911 is not that hard. However, if you have none and are a revolver skills only type, it can be challenging. The 1911 has many parts and a more complicated break down/field strip method than your average Glock. Not impossible, but can be frustrating if you are just learning. Not all 1911s are created the same. Some have traditional guide rod/barrel bushing and spring combination, others have a one piece guide rod setup that requires a special tool or paper clip for disassembly.
When I worked at my local gun store selling firearms, here is the grading scale I used for 1911 pistols, from lower tier to top tier. Some might call BS on me labeling Kimber as lower tier, but with all of the out of box issues I witnessed first hand like, rusty barrels, failure to load, failure to eject and broken parts within the first 100 rounds, it got to where this store would not even order Kimbers for stock unless someone specifically just had to have one. My personal list goes in order from worse to best and is just my opinion based on hands on experience.
Lower tier:
Kimber
Llama
Remington
American Tactical
GSG
American Classic
Metro Arms
ATI
Mid tier:
Taurus
ARMSCOR
Regent
Citadel
Rock Island Armory
Ruger SR1911
Para USA
Sig Sauer
Smith & Wesson
Springfield Armory
STI
Colt
Top tier:
Dan Wesson
Caspian Arms
Les Baer
Fusion Firearms
Nighthawk Custom
Wilson Combat
Ed Brown
There are some really good books out there that are must have books about 1911 pistols. Here they are.
And this website is the best on the internet when it comes to 1911 pistols. I highly recommend reading up and checking out all the hundreds and hundreds of different models available.
http://forums.1911forum.com/
My personal choices for your first full size 1911, depending on budget are as follows.
$450-$600 Budget
1. Rock Island Armory, 2. Citadel, 3. ARMSCOR
$700-$900 Budget
1. Springfield Armory, 2. Ruger SR1911, 3. Smith & Wesson
$999-$1,600 Budget
1. Dan Wesson, 2. Colt, 3. STI
Unlimited Budget
1. Dan Wesson, 2. Ed Brown, 3. Wilson Combat
Yeah, kinda partial to Dan Wesson pistols if you couldn't tell. You get a lot of 1911 for the money with their products. Also, use Youtube to learn more about a specific model that you find, before you buy. There are literally tens of thousands of videos on 1911 pistols on youtube. Over the past 8 years, I myself was on a 1911 kick. Looking at my records, I went through 14 pistols before I finally settled on my two that I have now. If I would have known now, what I didn't know then, I would have made a Dan Wesson my second 1911 and been done. But you gotta crawl before you can walk. The best advice I can give you is, go to many different gun stores, handle as many different model 1911's as you can and you start to get a feel for them. The differences in grips, grip lengths, control differences, weight differences, sights, etc etc etc. Just for record here are some basics.
Full Size Government model 1911 characterisitics:
- 5" barrel
- Full size grip frame in either steel or aluminum with typical full size grips
- 7 or 8 round magazine
- 32 - 40 oz weight unloaded, depending on make and model
Commander model 1911 characteristics:
- 4.5" - 4" length barrel depending on make and model, but mainly 4.25" for original Commanders.
- Full size grip frame in either steel or aluminum with full size or thin grips
- 7 or 8 round magazine
- 30- 36 oz weight unloaded, depending on make and model
CCO or Concealed Carry Officer model 1911 characteristics:
- 4.25" - 4" length barrel
- Officer size grip frame in aluminum with thin grips
- 6 or 7 round magazine
- 26 - 32 oz weight unloaded, depending on make and model
- Dan Wesson made the CCO model popular as well as Colt with their CCO Talo Edition.
Officer Compact model 1911 characteristics:
- 3.5" - 3" length barrel
- Officer size grip frame in steel or aluminum with thin grips or thick grips
- 6 or 7 round magazine
- 25 - 28 oz weight unloaded, depending on make and model
- Colt, STI, Kimber, Springfield, Dan Wesson, Rock Island Armory, Citadel, Para, Smith & Wesson, and all the Top Tier companies make Officer models.
Hybrids:
Smith & Wesson makes a hybrid that I have not seen by any other, but I'm sure someone else makes it as well. But it is a Full size grip frame with an Officer Compact size barrel and slide in their Pro series pistols. Para makes double stack models that hold 14 rounds and use Para specific magazines. STI also makes double stack models. STI and Rock River Arms offer polymer frame 1911's but no eta on the RRA models.
Hope some of this helps.
Patrick
- 1911 BRING ENOUGH HANDGUN -
highboostgn
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2011
GetOwnedVette
Active Member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2006
I've owned 50+ 1911's....Every one from Colts to Les Baer's to Sig's.
IMO for 800-1500 Id buy a Kimber. If price is no factor nothing beats a Nighthawk Custom.I have 10,000 rounds through my nighthawk with 2 jams, 1 which was a mag crack.
IMO for 800-1500 Id buy a Kimber. If price is no factor nothing beats a Nighthawk Custom.I have 10,000 rounds through my nighthawk with 2 jams, 1 which was a mag crack.
I have a friend that is a gun dealer,He does it on the side from his firefighter job. Just a one man operation. I know he has shipped all over the USA for other friends. just needs to go to a FFL dealer to be picked up. Is it ok on this site to post his web page? Don't want to step over the line if not ok. Just to see if his pricing is any better
I have recently picked up an A1 and another Springfield, I am not impressed.... The remington is even worse, it is anything but smooth!
For the money an Rock Island or Taurus is a great deal IMO....
I can tell you from personal experience, don't try and build a custom. I've spent more on it than I'll ever get out of it and am still not happy with the way it shoots. If you can shoot it before you buy, do it, but don't build it unless you're willing to find a good builder that knows what the hell he's doing. 
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
Just saw a Dan Wesson in the local pawn shop. Guy was asking $1G, AIRC.
Nickle plated? Stainless?? He never offered to letme handle it...
Nickle plated? Stainless?? He never offered to letme handle it...
I have a custom caspian that is super tight but unless you trust the builder id stay away from custom made 1911's. I would like one of the new ruger sr1911's, nice fair priced peice for sure. I also cant help but like the sig scorpions...it looks like your holding a diamond back rattlesnake in your hand.
WOW!! I saw a Kimber mentioned as a low-tier , i own a kimber TLE-RLII and i can tell you it just makes the same hole bigger
i have shot , some many firearms, ( so-owner of a gun-shop ) here in miami, and i can definetly tell you the kimber, is one of the most accurate 45's you will ever own, the colt commander is very good also, i would have to STONGLY Disagree with ruqwknf i understand he worked at a gun-shop , but as a owner i shoot and fire all my rental guns, and i can say , i have never had one person come back with anything but compliments , i've never had any rust issues or anything of that nature, might have been the supplier , who had issues, all the kimbers i've had at the shop have been perfect, but who knows what happend or which vendor he purchased them from? i order from top distributers and never had any issues, the Kimber definetly is a top-tier 45, another thing to consider those top tier 45's i definetly agree with him there, nothing like a wilson combat, the bad part is that , the wilson combat can cost as much as $4500 and les bear's are in the $2k area, dan wesson and ed brown very nice around same price point or more.
the pare G.I. Expert for the price point, is hard to beat no complaints there either, we also have the remington R1 , better than the para but of course more expensive, all good 45's it really boils down to money , i'm sur you have a certin price point.
just my take, on weapons i have ....................sorry its so long lol
, i own a kimber TLE-RLII and i can tell you it just makes the same hole biggeri have shot , some many firearms, ( so-owner of a gun-shop ) here in miami, and i can definetly tell you the kimber, is one of the most accurate 45's you will ever own, the colt commander is very good also, i would have to STONGLY Disagree with ruqwknf i understand he worked at a gun-shop , but as a owner i shoot and fire all my rental guns, and i can say , i have never had one person come back with anything but compliments , i've never had any rust issues or anything of that nature, might have been the supplier , who had issues, all the kimbers i've had at the shop have been perfect, but who knows what happend or which vendor he purchased them from? i order from top distributers and never had any issues, the Kimber definetly is a top-tier 45, another thing to consider those top tier 45's i definetly agree with him there, nothing like a wilson combat, the bad part is that , the wilson combat can cost as much as $4500 and les bear's are in the $2k area, dan wesson and ed brown very nice around same price point or more.
the pare G.I. Expert for the price point, is hard to beat no complaints there either, we also have the remington R1 , better than the para but of course more expensive, all good 45's it really boils down to money , i'm sur you have a certin price point.
just my take, on weapons i have ....................sorry its so long lol
i will have to agree with "no-nos" on the Kimber being a nice peice. No way are they low-tier pistols. Granted, not all kimbers are created equal as "brif" said but still the quality is mid range at the least. The series I kimber's (1996-2000) are supposedly better built than the newer series II but still i would take any good condition kimber over any of the Mid Tier guns listed by "RUQWKNF" (except maybe a nice Colt)
turbodave231
Moderator
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
I have full size stainless S&W 1911 that I bought new and have put over 2000 rounds through it. Never a problem with the gun. Smooth as glass and deadly accurate. I LOVE the gun and would recommend it to anyone looking for a 1911. I would love to have an Ed Brown or Wilson Combat, but can't justify the price.
