I've been reading up for the last few months on T/R's and Super Coupes. What I've always wanted to ask is, has anyone had a run in with an S/C, or have any opinions on them as opposed to the Turbo Regals. From what I understand, the S/C is setup more for road racing (handling), and the T/R's are more for straightline peformance(dragging). The reason I'm researching is because I plan on owning either one of these as my next vehicle. I know obviously everyone here would be in favor of the T/R, and respectfully so. I'd just like to get an honest opinion, Thanks.
Turbo Regal, or Ford T-Bird S/C???
- Thread starter moses
- Start date
strikeeagle
New Member
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- Jun 6, 2001
See Feb. 06 Hemmings Muscle Machines. 'Nuff said...
strike
strike
Get a TTA and get the best of both worlds! :biggrin:
The only experience I had with a SC T-bird was when I had my old 87 IROC-Z (305 TPI/5 speed). It wouldn't be fair for me to make a recommendation on only one race. But if I were in your shoes I would be looking for a Turbo Buick. My personal opinion is that the history and appearance of the Turbo Buicks makes them more desirable (not to mention their performance).
The only experience I had with a SC T-bird was when I had my old 87 IROC-Z (305 TPI/5 speed). It wouldn't be fair for me to make a recommendation on only one race. But if I were in your shoes I would be looking for a Turbo Buick. My personal opinion is that the history and appearance of the Turbo Buicks makes them more desirable (not to mention their performance).
TR Custom Parts
Mark Hueffman - Owner
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
Ask Phillyturbo6 on this board. :biggrin:
BOOSTEDGNs
Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2004
Ive driven a few sc t birds they are nice but I have to admit they are PIA to work on even a simple plug change is like a major project IMO
After finally getting a gn Ive never looked back at other vehicle cause these cars are great cars when they running right and Ive owned more than my share of different cars and really like these old gn/turbo buick alot but they are getting old so are the sc tbirds you should really test drive both before you make the final decision...
Alan
After finally getting a gn Ive never looked back at other vehicle cause these cars are great cars when they running right and Ive owned more than my share of different cars and really like these old gn/turbo buick alot but they are getting old so are the sc tbirds you should really test drive both before you make the final decision...
Alan
BOOSTEDGNs
Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2004
one other thing I really wanted to mention the cars seem to hold their own when we are talking retaining their value.....not much I can say about alot of the other cars going these days which is a plus in my book
Alan
Alan
SC plug changes aren't all that bad. You just do it from below, like you would a third-gen F-body.
Having lived with an SC for a few years, and several hundred thousand miles, I can say it is a superior road car to a GN. In fact it's not even close, and it shouldn't be as the target market was different. The SC was aimed at the BMW 6 series back in the day so that gives you an idea of what one would drive like. BTW, avoid the AOD versions. The factory programming of the AOD is not sporting in the least, and sucks all the fun out of driving one.
The downside is that the thing resists attempts to improve power tooth and nail. Just getting 13's seems to cost a couple-three thousand, and if you want more you better knock over a bank. The highest HP SC at the moment is 440rwhp with an Autorotor blower (think Kenne-Bell type) Worse, the five speed versions wheel hop badly due to a combination of the differential bushings and rear subframe-to-body bushings. Interestingly, the automatics don't do that. All in all they're not drag racers. A modded GN will kill one on the strip at considerably less money.
On the road is where a good SC shines, and makes a GN seem like a buckboard wagon in comparison, So if you want a fun car that'll get on down the road and go around a corner without scaring you to death, along with a certain anonymity (read: not likely to get ripped off everywhere you go, so you can take it places, like dinner, etc.) then the SC is a good choice. If you're wanting to go drag racing, and have the quickest ET around, then the SC is not what you'd want to start with.
(Oh BTW, if you do buy one and need parts, You'll find that there are usually two choices, one less expensive and one more expensive and having to be ordered. You can guess which one the SC takes
)
Having lived with an SC for a few years, and several hundred thousand miles, I can say it is a superior road car to a GN. In fact it's not even close, and it shouldn't be as the target market was different. The SC was aimed at the BMW 6 series back in the day so that gives you an idea of what one would drive like. BTW, avoid the AOD versions. The factory programming of the AOD is not sporting in the least, and sucks all the fun out of driving one.
The downside is that the thing resists attempts to improve power tooth and nail. Just getting 13's seems to cost a couple-three thousand, and if you want more you better knock over a bank. The highest HP SC at the moment is 440rwhp with an Autorotor blower (think Kenne-Bell type) Worse, the five speed versions wheel hop badly due to a combination of the differential bushings and rear subframe-to-body bushings. Interestingly, the automatics don't do that. All in all they're not drag racers. A modded GN will kill one on the strip at considerably less money.
On the road is where a good SC shines, and makes a GN seem like a buckboard wagon in comparison, So if you want a fun car that'll get on down the road and go around a corner without scaring you to death, along with a certain anonymity (read: not likely to get ripped off everywhere you go, so you can take it places, like dinner, etc.) then the SC is a good choice. If you're wanting to go drag racing, and have the quickest ET around, then the SC is not what you'd want to start with.
(Oh BTW, if you do buy one and need parts, You'll find that there are usually two choices, one less expensive and one more expensive and having to be ordered. You can guess which one the SC takes
)Most SCs have good suspension to due tha fact that they auto air ride suspension. They made the supercoupe both in the Tbird and the Mercury Cougar which is much much much rarer than the Tbird. Later models of the SC tbirds were the faster of the group. Some 5speed version of the 95ish (dont recall last year) were solid mid 14's second vehicles.
Yes they do seem to have a large amount of problems IMO. As with most things when you start moding them more problems could potentially arise.
As far as being fast or anything? If you need to check the www.TCCOA.com and the SCCOAi bilieve. there is somewhat of a aftermarket backing for these vehicles but nothing that would compare to that of the Turbo Regals.
An example of performance would be: My buddy brad had a 90 XR7 SC Cougar. It had a hypertech chip. smaller pulley (almost 14lbs of boost) catback exhaust. free mods. no resonator or cats. Cold Air kit and an intercooler fan. On the dyno the car made 210 RWHP and 320 RWTQ. To put it simply the car wsa a boat. It ran mid to high 14s pretty consistentl with and average MPH of 95ish.
If it were me i would pick a newer GTP grand Prix if it were possible. That same person (brad) had a 4door 2000 GTP that had a cold air kit, exhaust dump no resonator, smaller pulley, and 100 octane. The car was a factory freak. it went 13.7 @ 103.
Yes they do seem to have a large amount of problems IMO. As with most things when you start moding them more problems could potentially arise.
As far as being fast or anything? If you need to check the www.TCCOA.com and the SCCOAi bilieve. there is somewhat of a aftermarket backing for these vehicles but nothing that would compare to that of the Turbo Regals.
An example of performance would be: My buddy brad had a 90 XR7 SC Cougar. It had a hypertech chip. smaller pulley (almost 14lbs of boost) catback exhaust. free mods. no resonator or cats. Cold Air kit and an intercooler fan. On the dyno the car made 210 RWHP and 320 RWTQ. To put it simply the car wsa a boat. It ran mid to high 14s pretty consistentl with and average MPH of 95ish.
If it were me i would pick a newer GTP grand Prix if it were possible. That same person (brad) had a 4door 2000 GTP that had a cold air kit, exhaust dump no resonator, smaller pulley, and 100 octane. The car was a factory freak. it went 13.7 @ 103.
Searcher said:(Oh BTW, if you do buy one and need parts, You'll find that there are usually two choices, one less expensive and one more expensive and having to be ordered. You can guess which one the SC takes
Agreed...try finding the Distributor and paying what they want for a new set of electronic front strut assemblies. Nothing and i say nothing is cheap. everything from the plug wires to the blower is always special order and at a premium.
Just reading around, I ran across this write up on an S/C site
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12500
It's pretty much saying the same thing you guys are, obviously tipping certain words more to the S/C respectfully, but still giving the facts. The stock GN is more powerful, and will be a better choice for straightline performance. Whereas the stock S/C is less powerful, but is a better choice for road racing, and handling. I don't know but I drive everyday, and most times it's 7:30 in the morning, and I'm makin lefts and rights to get my kids to school in 15 minutes to a school that's 20 minutes away minus traffic. And trust me it feels like a road race :tongue: I also like the fact that a 5 speed is an option with the S/C. And they also seem to be little bit more attainable price wise. At least in this area of the midwest. On the other hand, I have developed quite a bit of respect for the T/R. There is no better looking vehicle produced in the 80's, and I like the persona it has. I would like to own them both, but it will only be one. Stay tuned.
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12500
It's pretty much saying the same thing you guys are, obviously tipping certain words more to the S/C respectfully, but still giving the facts. The stock GN is more powerful, and will be a better choice for straightline performance. Whereas the stock S/C is less powerful, but is a better choice for road racing, and handling. I don't know but I drive everyday, and most times it's 7:30 in the morning, and I'm makin lefts and rights to get my kids to school in 15 minutes to a school that's 20 minutes away minus traffic. And trust me it feels like a road race :tongue: I also like the fact that a 5 speed is an option with the S/C. And they also seem to be little bit more attainable price wise. At least in this area of the midwest. On the other hand, I have developed quite a bit of respect for the T/R. There is no better looking vehicle produced in the 80's, and I like the persona it has. I would like to own them both, but it will only be one. Stay tuned.
A TR owner pointing fingers at an SC for reliability is humorous. I think we could call it a wash on that score.
If the car is going to have to be driven everywhere, run errands, go out of town, and just generally live the life of a normal car, I'd recommend the SC. Plus they're cheap enough that you can wad it up and throw it away if you have to and not have a guilty conscience like you would with a TR. Finding a SC knowledgable tech helps a bunch if you can't do the work yourself. It's those people relying on the everyday auto tech that seem to have most problems
If the car is up north watch for rust under the ground effects, particularly behind the doors. Cougars rust out there too (bad 1/4 and rear window seals), but you can see it on the Cougar since it doesn't have GFX.
If the car is going to have to be driven everywhere, run errands, go out of town, and just generally live the life of a normal car, I'd recommend the SC. Plus they're cheap enough that you can wad it up and throw it away if you have to and not have a guilty conscience like you would with a TR. Finding a SC knowledgable tech helps a bunch if you can't do the work yourself. It's those people relying on the everyday auto tech that seem to have most problems
If the car is up north watch for rust under the ground effects, particularly behind the doors. Cougars rust out there too (bad 1/4 and rear window seals), but you can see it on the Cougar since it doesn't have GFX.
One of my best friends owns a 93 TBSC, and we've raced several times. He's only beat me once, but he's a poor college student and can't afford much as far as modding.
Last summer he blew a HG and I flew out to help him change it / drink beer. That was the worst job I've ever done on a car. It took forever.
The SC is a bit cheaper than a TR though, but I think the TR's the best bang for your buck.
Last summer he blew a HG and I flew out to help him change it / drink beer. That was the worst job I've ever done on a car. It took forever.
The SC is a bit cheaper than a TR though, but I think the TR's the best bang for your buck.
I said that exact same thing today. In the end, the best bang for buck will be the T/R for me. Because sock for stock it's already more powerful, and the aftermarket is a little more available to make it handle better, it's a G-Body pretty much so. I'm sure I can get a GN to handle for my daily needs, and still have the edge at the track or whatever. So after I get done with my Big Block Nova, the T/R will be my next car. :wink:
moses said:
I wouldn't say a 210 hp/4100lb car is better for "road racing" than a TR.
The ford steering has better feel and they were available with larger rubber from the factory, but modify both for handling, spending the same amount of money on each and the T-boat is going to severely out classed in the "road racing and a handling" department.
The extra 600 lbs of dead weight can't be saved by indepedant rear suspension.
For highway ride, sound insulation and road feel, the SC wins hands down. So would an LSC lincoln and a lot of other cars. But, if I had a choice between an SC and a TR and had to set the fast lap time on a road course (or even an autocross), I wouldn't pick the SC.
My $.02. I owned a 1989 SC for 5 Years. I was one of the first members of the Super Coupe Club of America and my car had many of the "test" parts on it. It drove great! Handle great for a big car. Inside was sweet with leather cd player, you know all the bells and whistles. Looked really good too! BUT, know matter what I did and how much money I spent, I could not get into the 13s! Yes 13s! Now this was about 4 years ago when I owned it and it probably has changed but there was NO market for bolt-on parts. My headers were custom built and set me back $850. The Ford 3.8 is just not built like the TR 3.8. You can always bolt on a new and bigger Turbo but try finding more than 2 differnet bolt on superchargers for the SC. I am not bad mouthing the SC, I loved it when I owned it and sometimes I miss it but, it does even come close to my GN. Also resale on the SC sucks! I poured thousands into mine and got $5000 for it when I sold it. Transmissions seem to be a weak link in the SC. Mine was a 5 speed made from Mazda and it ate syncronizers all the time. Yea the TR is not built to handle corners but who wants too? If that is what you want to do I would look into something else besides the SC. Sorry for the ramblings but like I said , my $.02.
Evaddave 87gn
Always learning...
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2005
Owned both, still have GN
I have owned both, and while the SC did handle very well, the Gn Handles almsot as good, with the right mods. I am also surpised that no one else has metioned this earlier. There are quite a few Gn's/T/R used in road race courses. Now this does not mean they going to out corner a New Poresh, but The Gn can take a corner as Good, or Better, than the SC, (with very little mods.) Some may protest that it will take away from the drag racing history that the GN was formed on. But hell, a custom car is what you want it to be, not that manufactur. Just my oppinion, you don't have to agree.
Dave
PS it will cost more get horsepower out of the SC, than to get cornering out of the GN
I have owned both, and while the SC did handle very well, the Gn Handles almsot as good, with the right mods. I am also surpised that no one else has metioned this earlier. There are quite a few Gn's/T/R used in road race courses. Now this does not mean they going to out corner a New Poresh, but The Gn can take a corner as Good, or Better, than the SC, (with very little mods.) Some may protest that it will take away from the drag racing history that the GN was formed on. But hell, a custom car is what you want it to be, not that manufactur. Just my oppinion, you don't have to agree.
Dave
PS it will cost more get horsepower out of the SC, than to get cornering out of the GN
Rodney87GN
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2004
A good friend had a 90 SC 5 speed. Only mods he had was K&N filter, smaller blower pulley, and custom exhaust w/Dynomax mufflers. On the highway at 60 mph it would pull away from stock LT1 F bodies quite easily. Really nice cars though, but speed parts seem expensive.
Bang for the buck in a straight line, GN wins easily.
Bang for the buck in a straight line, GN wins easily.
ok Ill throw in my .02s... turn the clock back to 1989 :biggrin: Wife needed a new car . years before I was a die hard Ford guy but go out of cars in 1980 .. then in 1986 the sickness started all over after I got an 86 GN .. then a 87 GN .. She got a new Trans Am / Z28 every other year from 1982. then in 89 the 89 TTA came out I wanted that car so bad .. sooooo we went out lookin for a new GTA and she couldn't find one with the right color and options ... driving back home goin by a Ford dealer they had a NICE 89 SC in dark blue !!! I really liked the car .. They didnt want to deal on it eithier . so I am walkin out and the "shark" asked me if I wanted to drive it .. thought about it for a sec an said "ok" .. gave the wife and I the keys and let us go (I left my GN there) .. sorry but that car was the slowest POS I ever had .. 2 days later I got a new Turbo Trans Am . sorry you can't compare the 2 I still have 4-5 T's and 2 TTAs ..GNX.. Shelby Mustang ....did I say the Buick is 10 times the car ??
I wanted that car so bad .. sooooo we went out lookin for a new GTA and she couldn't find one with the right color and options ... driving back home goin by a Ford dealer they had a NICE 89 SC in dark blue !!! I really liked the car .. They didnt want to deal on it eithier . so I am walkin out and the "shark" asked me if I wanted to drive it .. thought about it for a sec an said "ok" .. gave the wife and I the keys and let us go (I left my GN there) .. sorry but that car was the slowest POS I ever had .. 2 days later I got a new Turbo Trans Am . sorry you can't compare the 2 I still have 4-5 T's and 2 TTAs ..GNX.. Shelby Mustang ....did I say the Buick is 10 times the car ?? 