Turbo redesign for a carb turbo system
- Thread starter charlief1
- Start date
dr_frankenstein
Mad Scientist
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2008
I will post some pics up, Sorry to have hi-jacked the hell out of your post Charlie.... im just excited to see somebody really working on the Carbed stuff!
:biggrin: A.j.
:biggrin: A.j.
I don't consider it a hijack Doc, I consider it a complement. Someone else believes that this setup has the same kind of potential as a sfi unit as I do. I believe I can at least get the same results as the 84-85 HA cars if not better.
I saw one post a while ago where someone used the 301 turbo and got good results he just didn't elaborate on how he did the mods so I thought I'd post them so anyone could do it. This is for me as much as the rest of us that don't get any respect. Unfortunatly my puter died and since this is a new one I don't have the book mark anymore. A friend of mine offered me the 2 301 turbos for $30 and I took them and the intake with this idea in mind. The problem I had was that the exhaust housing of the 301 was so much larger and the outlet angled differently I couldn't us it. That's when I started asking question on the board. One thing I found out is the 86-87 exhaust wheel is lighter than the earlier ones so I'll be using it to help spool the turbo. Someone on the board sold me a good core for less than $50 with shipping and it should be here next week and I plan to weigh them to make sure of this. I'm polishing the intake wheels right now in a tumbler I have using corn stalk treated with Flitz case polisher and I'll post a pic of them when they're done. Polishing has taken about 20 hours so far but no damage to the wheels. This should help keep carbon off of them when in use. The shaft and wheels will be rebalanced when I'm done so there won't be any issues with bearing wear and keep the turbo alive longer. I still havent found an easy way to get the coke out of the turbo housing yet but we have a hot tank at work so I'm thinking about asking my boss if I can stick them in there to boil them out. Any ideas are always welcome if for nothing else to LOL. Everyone needs on once in a while.:biggrin:Here's some pics of the intake wheels after polishing in a tumbler for 35 or so hours. You can see a BIG difference in size. If you decide to do this yourself be careful. The vains are delicate and I was using corn stalk with Flitz polish additive. Works great but the corn stalk is shot now and I have to buy more Flitz for my case polishing. Some of the carbon build up will have to be carefully scraped off. Some of it is really hard and doesn't come off easily. Use a very sharp knife of razor and scrape carefully.
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it's just a six
Member
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2005
Looks good!
Could you take some measurements of the exducer & inducer of both wheels & post them here?
Thanks.
dr_frankenstein
Mad Scientist
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2008
That is awesome Charlie!
A.j
A.j
Exhaust wheel 301 turbo 2.5035 oad. 1.9285 for the exhaust outlet side.
T Type exhaust wheel 2.5260 oad. 1.8235 for the exhaust outlet side.
301 inducer is 2.7130 oad. 2.0605 for inlet side.
T Type inducer is 2.3665 oad. 1.8355 for inlet side.
I don't know what that would do as far a p trim but that's a heck oc diff on the intake side. Someone else can calculate what the diffs are.:biggrin:
oad= overall diameter. Now if I can find a better intake wheel of exhaust wheel (which I hope the 86-87 turbo has) I'll be set and won't have the turbo lag as a consequence. Still waiting for the turbo to arrive so I can compair them and tear into it. Should be here sometime this week. I'll keep yall posted.
T Type exhaust wheel 2.5260 oad. 1.8235 for the exhaust outlet side.
301 inducer is 2.7130 oad. 2.0605 for inlet side.
T Type inducer is 2.3665 oad. 1.8355 for inlet side.
I don't know what that would do as far a p trim but that's a heck oc diff on the intake side. Someone else can calculate what the diffs are.:biggrin:
oad= overall diameter. Now if I can find a better intake wheel of exhaust wheel (which I hope the 86-87 turbo has) I'll be set and won't have the turbo lag as a consequence. Still waiting for the turbo to arrive so I can compair them and tear into it. Should be here sometime this week. I'll keep yall posted.
it's just a six
Member
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2005
Thanks
What is the bore size of the compressor wheel?
I might suggest not to limit yourself to just a 86,87 GN compressor wheel,you might be able to go bigger.
Just a thought.
Here is what I did to a semi stock Mitsubishi turbo
60-1 wheel install for low dollar. TDO6H-20 G turbo - SyTy/SGT - Forums
What is the bore size of the compressor wheel?
I might suggest not to limit yourself to just a 86,87 GN compressor wheel,you might be able to go bigger.
Just a thought.
Here is what I did to a semi stock Mitsubishi turbo
60-1 wheel install for low dollar. TDO6H-20 G turbo - SyTy/SGT - Forums
it's just a six
Member
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2005
No, the actual hole on the compressor wheel. The I.D.= inside diameter.
You could probably purchase a T3 compressor wheel or your choice, & have your compressor housing machined to match the new larger wheel.
I installed a 60-1 wheel on the two posts prior.
& here again below.http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=53545&highlight=tdo6H-20g
I'm using the 301t compressor wheel AND housing, not the 86-87. I'm plannig to use the exhaust wheel off the 86-67 and the housing off the carb/turbo unless the 86-87 has a better design. Going from a .42 ar on the inlet to a .60 to increase overall volume to the engine. As far as shaft size it's .248 where the inducer mounts.
Center section
This is the center section teardown. For those of you that are squemish it's a lot easier than tearing into an engine. The first pic is of the inlet side without the adapter. You see the o ring for sealing the adapter to the center. There are several holes you need to pay attention to. The fitting on the right is the oil inlet and the flat section on the left is the drain. In the center you see where the shaft goes and just to the right of it there's a hole for presurized oil for the thrust collor and plate. Make sure they're clean and free of debris. The next pic is the exhaust wheel side. Not much to see here but ther is a snap ring in the hole that holds the bushings in. Under it is the bushing and another snap ring. This goes for both sides. The next pics are of the adapter. This one has part #s 410604-11 and above that an A and an M9. This is the accual inlet side where the inducer rides. I'm showint the back side that rides against the center to show one of the problems. In the very center you see what looks like brass. It is. The seal fell apart and this is what's missing. It's in the 5th pic. 6 and 7 are of the thrust collor and bushing. Not much to look at but in the lst pic you'll see my pen pointing at some stray aluminum that has either come from or gone through the turbo That means I'm gonna need a new one. The overall condition of the thrust collor is rough so It'll have to be replaced. I still have a lot of cleaning to do but after soaking in a solution of gas and red diesel which helped clean quite a bit of gunk off it looks a whole lot better.
This is the center section teardown. For those of you that are squemish it's a lot easier than tearing into an engine. The first pic is of the inlet side without the adapter. You see the o ring for sealing the adapter to the center. There are several holes you need to pay attention to. The fitting on the right is the oil inlet and the flat section on the left is the drain. In the center you see where the shaft goes and just to the right of it there's a hole for presurized oil for the thrust collor and plate. Make sure they're clean and free of debris. The next pic is the exhaust wheel side. Not much to see here but ther is a snap ring in the hole that holds the bushings in. Under it is the bushing and another snap ring. This goes for both sides. The next pics are of the adapter. This one has part #s 410604-11 and above that an A and an M9. This is the accual inlet side where the inducer rides. I'm showint the back side that rides against the center to show one of the problems. In the very center you see what looks like brass. It is. The seal fell apart and this is what's missing. It's in the 5th pic. 6 and 7 are of the thrust collor and bushing. Not much to look at but in the lst pic you'll see my pen pointing at some stray aluminum that has either come from or gone through the turbo That means I'm gonna need a new one. The overall condition of the thrust collor is rough so It'll have to be replaced. I still have a lot of cleaning to do but after soaking in a solution of gas and red diesel which helped clean quite a bit of gunk off it looks a whole lot better.
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OK guys, I finally got the 86 turbo in so here's some more pics and info. In the first pic you can see the differences in the mount flanges now that I have a gasket. The second on is the 310 turbo intake compared to the 86. As you can see the housings are simular in overall size but look at the hole in the middle. The 86 has a much smaller entrance. The third pic is of the three housings together. The v6 carb and the 86 have simularly sized inlets but the 301 is much larger. Same with the next one.
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The next 2 are of the compressor wheels together. You can see a size difference. Can you tell which one is the original carb/turbo one? The second pic is the 301 compared to the 86 with the carb/turbo on the floor. Inlet size for the two v6 are about the same but the 301 has a bigger overall size. I'm trying to post these befor the bad weather gets here so if I don't get it all done keep your fingers crossed. We're under a tornado warning.
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The next 2 are all 3 exhaust housings. The 301 and the 86 have bigger outlets in comparison. Even the waste gate hole is bigger on the 86 than the carb/turbo housing. The three have different overall sizes as well. I'll post the AR on each later but the storm is about here and I need to get ofline. Hope all of you have a good night. We're having a rough one tonight.
Hope all of you have a good night. We're having a rough one tonight.Attachments
Since I had to batten down the hatches last night I didn't get to finish the update. Here are the three inducers. The original v6 turbo on the right, 301 in the middle, and the 86-87 on the left. As you can see the two on the left are of same overall size. What you can't see is that the end isn't. I think GM had the same idea I had. Now if you look at the two inducer housings The one on the right looks a little bigger but it isn't. Both are a .60 AR but the inlet on the 301 is much bigger. This will allow for more air coming into the turbo and engine. When you look at the two on edge the 86 is much thinner but the outlets are roughly the same size.
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Now onto the exducer side. All three wheels are displayed and the 2 largest are carb/turbo exducers. No wonder we have turbo lag so badly. The smallest one is off the 86-87 and it's conciderably lighter. This is the one I'll be using. I need to call Phil and find out which housing he used but I think I'll be using the 86 housing. It looks close enough to the original that it shouln'd be a problem. The only difference I can see is a slightly larger outlet and the wastegate mount is clocked a few degrees foward. and the holes aren't in the same position so I haven't decided yet. If I do I'll have to make a down pipe and wastegate for it but we'll see.
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The last 2 are of the intake adapter. I've got the 3/8" spacer on the carb mounting location in the first pic and in the second I'm pointing to the area I'll be cutting out and welding more matereal to it so I can open up the throat for better flow. I will be leaving the niple though. If you have one of these you know how the mounting flange it's pretty open and by using a 4 hole plate on it I should be able to get a better seal on the carb and more vac signal.
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it's just a six
Member
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2005
Just wondering what all three A/R are on the turbine housings?
Any numbers on them? .63,.84,etc?
I would think you can use the larger 301 turbine wheel & machine a turbine housing in a 86-87 if it is smaller to get the spool up faster & not choke the exhaust too much by using the larger turbine wheel.
Just a thought.
Any numbers on them? .63,.84,etc?
I would think you can use the larger 301 turbine wheel & machine a turbine housing in a 86-87 if it is smaller to get the spool up faster & not choke the exhaust too much by using the larger turbine wheel.
Just a thought.
