Transplant: HELP!

[jake616]

http://turbo buicks.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=18653 <-----remove the space between the turbo and the buicks. It replaced them with stars when I posted the link.


Okay, I keep getting referred to you guys for information on sticking the heart of a Grand National (engine, transmission, rear end) into another car ...so I decided to ask you all. Hopefully you can help me out.

I have a few questions before I begin anything or purchasing any parts. Please read through them and answer what you can. Thanks Alot!

Questions
*What do I need to know before swapping a 3.8T into any car?
*How do I know if it will fit?
*Where is the list of car's that have been done before (hybrids)?
*Anything else I forgot to ask, that I should know?

Thank you all so much! PM me if you have any questions.


-jake

 

[broke1]

What kind of car??? On the other board on top of the hybrids page is a sticky that tells all the cars with a TR drivetrain.HTH

 

[jake616]

the car (1971 Datsun 510) is a hot air project over there..and uncomplete

 

[broke1]

Im sure it will fit,but I have no idea what your trying to ask

 

[jake616]

*Advice on putting an engine form 1 car, into a car it never belonged in.
*Things I should check out before even starting a swap like this.
*Advice that somebody could offer about hybrid buick..anything

 

[bruce]

The 510s were never made to handle anything like a GN HP wise. Figure on spending a bunch on getting that differenctial to live, or just run small tires, and don't acclerate hard.

Just measuring the lenght of the engine from the back of the block to the front of the intercooler, and then from the firewall to the back of the radiator will probably ruin your day.

There's been some pics of 510 with Rover V8s on the net, but with the Intercooler the GN gets awful long.

 

[Sleeper]

Originally posted by jake616
*Advice on putting an engine form 1 car, into a car it never belonged in.
*Things I should check out before even starting a swap like this.
*Advice that somebody could offer about hybrid buick..anything

Here are a few questions for you to ponder:

Have you set a ballpark budget that you can realistically afford?

Have you ever done a swap before?

Are you planning to do this yourself?
If so, Do you have a large workspace, collection of tools, (Hand tools, power tools, Welder, grinder, etc) mechanical skills, (fabrication, electrical, plumbing, etc) outside resources for things
you can't fabricate or do yourself?

Do you have a source for the engine and tranny?

Do you have the time to take on a project this big? (Some of the guys have spent over a year working on theirs)

If you can answer yes to the above questions, then ask yourself is this project going to be a race car or a street driven car. Be realistic here.

This is a relatively complicated swap and requires a lot of planning. Many things must be considered, such as SAFETY!
Most likely with a older vehicle, (and even with a newer one) the brakes and suspension will have to be upgraded.
Fuel system will also need an upgrade, and that is a place where no Mickey Mousing is allowed and no corners should be cut. Gasoline can be very dangerous!

Do a bunch of reading and research on these motors, so you have a better idea on what you are getting into.

As Bruce said get the tape out and start taking measurements and keeping notes.

Potential swap cars engine bay. Length, width and height.
Look for potential things that will cause interference, strut towers, steering box/rack, linkage, K member, etc

Motor height, oil pan to top of vacuum block, front of intercooler to back of block, width with accessories,
Tranny length, width and height at numerous locations.

I spent a winter gathering info, planning, measuring, etc., before I even touched a tool.

Paul

 

[jake616]

Here are a few questions for you to ponder:

Have you set a ballpark budget that you can realistically afford? I don't have a family or many bills and I am young...I can invest what I work for. I am guessing: $10,000 near the end excluding labor (mostly free)

Have you ever done a swap before? No, I have a guy that has swapped engines before (300zx into a Maxima, and a rotary into a Mazda B2200. Hopefully the same concepts.

Are you planning to do this yourself? Not at all. I plan on using a motorcycle builder/ custom car builder in North Carolina as well. I also plan on using Turbo Buicks, Turbo Buick, and Turbo 6 Power.
If so, Do you have a large workspace, collection of tools, (Hand tools, power tools, Welder, grinder, etc) mechanical skills, (fabrication, electrical, plumbing, etc) outside resources for things
you can't fabricate or do yourself? It can all be taught to me through the above mentioned person. Paintbooth, Metal Fab shop, Nice warm garage space.

Do you have a source for the engine and tranny? No, and the only place I have found one is ebay Junkyards have nothing. I need help in this field.


Do you have the time to take on a project this big? (Some of the guys have spent over a year working on theirs) I am young, I don't need to budget my time..It can all invested in this project, and funding the project by working.

is this project going to be a race car or a street driven car. Be realistic here. I'd like it to be a bit of both, but mostly a street driven "sleeper". If it ended up being mostly track..that is okay as well..but more frowned upon by me.



Thank You Very Much! That was a helpful post w/ some valuable information.

*What exactly did you research?
*Can you tell em the different measurements you took?
*I bought a Haynes and Chilton manual from BOTH cars for that much info... Any other ideas?

Thanks again!
-jake

 

[jake616]

T.T.T

 

[jake616]

Originally posted by jake616
T.T.T

 

[Sleeper]

Research wise, I spent a lot of time at gnttype.org just getting familiar with the workings of the motor and tranny. I had also made a list of specific areas that I would need to deal with, such as fuel system, electrical, cooling, exhaust, etc., and searched the archives (On all boards) for articles and info related. I also made a parts list and sourced out potential suppliers.
Just to give you an idea of some of the details you will have to sort out.... The fuel system is fairly complicated if you have to make it from scratch. One of the problems I came across was the fuel pump. I new I wanted a 255L/hr pump, but at the time I couldn't run a "in-tank" pump, so I had to find a equivalent external mount pump. (I have since converted to a in-tank pump, the external was too noisy)
Trying to mount the pump in a safe area where it didn't have to work too hard, (it is better at pushing than pulling) and plumbing it into the tank "safely" took a lot of fabrication.
Running proper size feed and return lines to the motor's fuel rail, using proper fittings and braided hose where needed, (Hope you have a good tubing bender) having to enlarge the existing tanks fittings to work with the new lines, tank baffles, finding a fuel filter that would take the PSI and fittings, as well as finding a place to mount it.
That is just part of the fuel system. The electrical is more complicated.

If you can, IMHO do most of the work on paper first, it will save you a lot of headaches later on.

Measure twice, cut once (I listed some of the measurements you need to make in my previous post)

The B510 will be unique, but take into consideration parts availability for it.
If something breaks or wears out, can you replace it?
Are you going to have to sink a ton of money into it just to make it safe enough to drive and handle? (Brakes, steering, suspension) Because of the extra weight up front due to the swap, will you need heavier springs?
Will the stock rear end hold up for more than a day? What replacement options do you have? 4 link , independent? Gear ratios, Posi? Can you fit a reasonable size tire underneath it? Will you stick with 13" rims?
Most important... Do you actually like the look of the car? Is it comfortable to drive? You are going to have to live with it.

Paul

 

[jake616]

Cool...Thanks for that advice as well! Great things to consider.