Trans leaking oil between front pump and convertor

[ULOSE2A6]

What would cause the tranny to leak quite a bit of oil between the front pump and Convertor?
Changed the seal on the pump, the one in there was not that old either and looked good, with no tears or abnormal feel to it. But replaced it still just in case. Also carefully inspected the snout on the Convertor, it looked fine with no scratches or cracks, the welds on it looked fine too. Still leaks, there is a stream of oil that appears to be running down in the middle under the snout of the Convertor.
Plan is to check the pressures on the tranny now and see if it is building too much pressure and causing it to push fluid past the front seal.
Open to suggestions and ideas.

Thanks,
Shev

 

[novaderrik]

does it only leak when it's running, or when it's shut off?
because mine doesn't leak at all when it's running, but when you shut it off it will eventually start to leak.. it might sit a few weeks before it starts to drip, then it just keeps dripping until the pan is sucked dry and it takes 3-4 quarts to top it back up.. i've asked on this forum a few times why it would do it, and no one has any ideas..

 

[ULOSE2A6]

It leaks when it is running, a steady stream on idle and more if you revv it up. When we shut it off it looks like the leak stopped. I called Chris @ CK but I believe he is on vacation until later this week, so was hoping some of the experts on here might have encountered a similar situation.

Novaderrik, hopefully you get some answers as well.

Regards,
Shev

 

[novaderrik]

yours sounds like a front seal... a $3 part that takes an afternoon to replace..

 

[ULOSE2A6]

Changed the seal out already yesterday and it still leaks. Going to pull the tranny back down and take the front pump out. Seems to me that's the only next step.

Regards,
Shev

 

[ttypewhite]

Going through the same issue right now with my Dad's car. It leaks when its running and not when its off. I pulled the tranny and changed the front seal, put it back in. Still leaks. I pulled it again, Sent it to the tranny shop and had the front pump out, put new seals and pan gasket in the tranny. Installed it again. Still leaks. That was last night. So with the car running up on jack stands I put a piece of card board inches from the front of the tranny to isolate where the leak is coming from. It seems to be happening at the tail end of the converter. The front of the tranny is dry and the outter portion of the bell housing shows a line of tranny fluid around it. I'm gonna give it another stab tonight and change out the PTC converter with our old ArtCarr.

 

[ULOSE2A6]

Mike,

When you took the front pump out of yours, did they open it and inspect for any stuck or broken valves or springs? It is weird that yours show the fluid around the case, toward the back of the torque convertor, almost like there is a hole in the torque convertor spraying out the fluid as it spins?

I will be pulling mine back down tonight or tomorrow and will be taking apart the front pump to check for any broken springs or stuck valves, maybe it is building too much pressure and the only place for it to come out is the front by the seal area? I see a clear stream running down the middle of the front pump/middle of the snout of the torque convertor from underneath when the car is running.

I will post back what I come up with.

Regards,
Shev

 

[ttypewhite]

Something was also broken in the front pump when it was inspected, not exactly sure what it was, but it was welded back together. Funny thing is, the tranny performed flawlessly with it like that. Our leak seems to be a pin hole in the converter near the backing plate that bolts to the flywheel.

 

[GNONYX]

At one time I though my tranny gasket was leaking since the fluid was dripping down on the front 4-5 tranny bolts near the flywheel inspection cover.
I must have taken the tranny pan 3 times, and posted a few until Bison told to checked the manual shaft for leaks. I check the manual shaft seal and around the outside area of the manual shaft, I've found very small amount of fluid exiting the manual shaft area. You might want to check and see if there is any fluid around the manual shaft. If there any here is NAPA's info on the special tool to remove the inner manual shaft seal:
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=BK_7769250_0117880293&An=0
NAPA # for manual Shaft Seal: http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=NOS4912_0067963100

 

[ttypewhite]

Well, 3's a charm. Pulled it down again today and put the old 9" ArtCarr converter back in and it's all good again. I'm gonna get the PTC welded up and replace it down the road.

 

[ULOSE2A6]

Congrats man. I'm not having the same luck. Pulled it down today and checked through the pump and all valves appear to be working fine and not stuck. Nothing looks damaged at all with the front pump. Really at wits end with this. Going to try and pressure up the torque Convertor and look for leaks. Other than that, I may just change the pump out with another one, probably stock one and see. I called CK a few times and left messages but haven't heard back from him. I'll post results.

 

[ULOSE2A6]

Chris from CK called me back just now. He clarified some things with the front pump. Signs pointing to a crack neck on the PTC Convertor. Will put in a different Convertor and see then test this one for leaks.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

The problem area for pin holes is generally around the snout area of the converter. The snouts on the 200-r4 converters are also prone to cracking where the pump drive notches are machined into the snout. The crack can be hard to see. Most pressure tests are performed with an insert inside the snout and this can seal off the leak where it isn't leaking during the test. A visual inspection or die check can find it.

 

[ULOSE2A6]

End up changing out the Convertor with another known one and it still leaks, maybe more now actually. It is pouring out the front pump. I'll be calling Chris on Monday to see about another new front pump.

 

[Phatman]

Good Luck Shev.....

Just in case you were wondering what to do on a rainy day.
Work on one of your toys....

 

[SSedan64]

Do you know what Casting # the front Pump Body is?
The newer #690 Bodies were upgraded, they have a machined step to prevent the Bushing from walking/working forward & cutting the rear of Seal, and a machined Relief groove & enlarged Drain holes to help exhaust/drain and prevent leaks from pressure buildup on the Seal, the #082 & #149 Bodies don't have these upgrades.

Staking Pump Bushing & enlarging Drain holes on older Pump Bodies:
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/T-700r4_through_4L70E_tips_and_tricks#Stake_the_pump_bushing
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/T-700r4_through_4L70E_tips_and_tricks#Drain_back_holes

 

[ULOSE2A6]

I looked at the numbers on the pump body and did not see 690 (I remembered those numbers from another thread), and I cannot recall what numbers were actually on the pump. I did not take a picture of it unfortunately. The pump bushin appeared to be intact, it was not loose and it had no apparent damage to it. Neither of the seals had any cuts or damage but the fluid kept coming out. Chris from CK did tell me about drilling out the holes but since I had bought this pump from him complete he said that was already done to it. Plus it was working fine since late last year when we installed it up until now.
He believes that there might be some blockage internally that a visual inspection cannot determine and he has not experienced anything like that before either. I bought another pump from Chris and I am sending this pump back to him for inspection since he is curious about it as well. I just cannot waste more time, effort and $$$ on this at this point.
Throughout the years on this car, I think the amount of money I have spent on tranny's and tranny related issues I could have bought another whole GN. Frustrating is really an understatement.

Regards,
Shev

 

[ULOSE2A6]

Just finished changing out the new front pump. No leaks. It was something in the front pump apparently.

Regards,
Shev

 

[chris718]

Glad to hear you are up and running.If the pump didnt leak for a few months when you first installed it something happened along the way to cause a leak.I will be sure to let you know what I find when you return it.