Time to go Stage II!

Don, I was wondering about the amount of torque and hp produced over the totality of the run (area under the curve). Have you done any calculations to compare what horsepower X will obtain if it is generated sooner in the run vs horsepower Y that may have a greater peak but does not equal in magnitude until later that hp X? I have two exhaust housings and contemplating back pressure. Thanks for your theoretical and experimental approach to this stuff. Most of us think on the applied level (me included).
I have played with different power curves (particularly area under the curve) with the sim from launch to finish and the limiting factor, for me anyway, is traction. As power begins to go over a certain level at the launch, elapsed times start to increase. The reason for that is that the tire slip numbers start to increase to too high of a level during the beginning part of the launch. It looks like there is a sweet spot of power that you want to use through the launch to maintain just the right amount of traction. A certain percentage of tire slip is actually desirable with slicks. Around 20-22%. But that number depends on the tire you're using too. I understand that drag radials don't work very well with any slip.
If you find that you are dumping a lot of exhaust energy through the wastegate at the launch just to maintain traction, you could probably get away with a larger exhaust housing. If you're already using a large a/r, you could probably get away with a larger turbine wheel, or less wheel trim. The compromise, of course there's always a compromise with turbocharger sizing, is that it will be a little harder to spool the turbo up to launch power setting. It just depends on what your tolerance is for a slower spool up.
That's what makes the nitrous so nice. You can throw the slow spool concern right out the window.
There is one factor that you can count on by going to a larger exhaust side, you will make more top end power. Be aware that you can go too large on the exhaust side. You want it to be small enough to be able to power the compressor to the boost level you're targeting. For instance, I'm targeting a minimum 40 psi max boost level with this new build. If I am unable to build 40 psi boost with the wastegate clamped shut, then I will know that the turbine is too large. Did you get that, Norbs?
 
No. The spool valve was half as effective as the nitrous with the afterburner tune, and when I tried to use the valve along with the nitrous, the spool up time was the same as it was with just using the spool valve alone. I ended up not using the valve at all. I just left it open.
The valve will not be on this new build.

How's your deal going? I haven't heard anything new.
Makes sense. Less to worry about too. Everything's good here. Truck's running great. 5.30's at 7psi, 3380lbs,on 275 radials so far..... Hoping to lean on it some more soon.
 
Makes sense. Less to worry about too. Everything's good here. Truck's running great. 5.30's at 7psi, 3380lbs,on 275 radials so far..... Hoping to lean on it some more soon.
It turns out the afterburn is very sensitive to the level of exhaust backpressure. Less being better. The spool valve introduced enough backpressure that it affected the afterburn.
7 psi. What a monster.
 
Just to add a little more to the reply to GNDriven. I've found that for my tire and chassis setup, so far, it appears that a launch hp level of around 830 bhp seems to be the ticket.
 
Some people don't realize how important the exhaust backpressure to intake boost pressure ratio is to determining how well the exhaust side is sized for the application. Exhaust backpressure is an important number to track as you make changes.
Gene. Do you know what sort of exhaust backpressure number you're getting with your combination?
 
I will wait on the specs from Gene's turbo before can add more to support my theory that your turbine is mismatched. What's Gene's mph and weight?
 
I will wait on the specs from Gene's turbo before can add more to support my theory that your turbine is mismatched. What's Gene's mph and weight?

As much as I don't want to get involved here, I can help with Gene's combo. I'm pretty sure he has an old school cast wheel 47-88 turbo. His backpressure isn't much over 1:1 since he hasn't turned the boost up very high yet. The highest the backpressure gets is when the car launches and the turbo is ramping up. I would have to assume Donnie's is the same way with that big exhaust wheel. I'm not sure of the weight, but it's light :) Because of the current gear in the car, we won't be able to give it the extra 15+ psi at BG that I think the turbo has in it
 
I figure that as I push towards my boost target of 40 psi with this compressor and the new engine, the exhaust backpressure to intake boost pressure ratio is going to move more towards 1:1 from the .85:1 I was getting from this turbo when it was on the Stage I engine at 28 psi boost. Even if the exhbp to intbp ratio ends up being 1:1, as long as I can get 40 psi boost at the max engine rpm of 9,000, I will call the engine/turbine match perfect.
So the targets for this turbine are:
Exhaust backpressure to intake boost pressure ratio of 1:1 or better.
Able to power the compressor to generate 40 psi or better at 9,000 rpm.

The work that I've done on the engine sim has already told me that the above will be the case. I've also recently worked with another turbo match calculator on the official AirWerks site that confirms what the engine simulator is telling me. It tells me I will end up with exactly an 1:1 exhbp to intbp ratio at 40 psi and 9,000 rpm using the 110mm turbine and an a/r of 1.0. I"ve been told that the 1.15 split turbine housing that I'm using now, is actually closer to a 1.0 than the 1.15 designation due to the divider wall taking up some of the scroll volume.
 
As much as I don't want to get involved here, I can help with Gene's combo. I'm pretty sure he has an old school cast wheel 47-88 turbo. His backpressure isn't much over 1:1 since he hasn't turned the boost up very high yet. The highest the backpressure gets is when the car launches and the turbo is ramping up. I would have to assume Donnie's is the same way with that big exhaust wheel. I'm not sure of the weight, but it's light :) Because of the current gear in the car, we won't be able to give it the extra 15+ psi at BG that I think the turbo has in it
If I recall correctly, when I was measuring the exh backpressure with the Stage I, the boost came up before the exhaust backpressure did. Don't take my word for it, but that's sort of what stuck in my head about that testing.
I do have a video of the testing that I did with the exhaust backpressure on YouTube. My user name on YouTube is DonW21G.
 
Here's the video.
Looking at it again, I think you're right, Cal. It appears the exhbp came up first and then the boost. Then the boost ended up out pacing the exhbp.
Excuse the blowing away of the tires on the 1-2 shift. Arrg.
I don't recall what sort of nitrous tune I was using on this run. It appears I wasn't using the nitrous at all.
This may have been a very early nitrous tune where I wasn't yet using the nitrous to pre-spool the turbo before releasing the transbrake. It looks like I probably had a smaller shot hitting on the release of the transbrake? There's definitely no afterburner going on.
I'm sure all the information about this test is on a thread somewhere on this site.

edit: Yep. I was using the nitrous. The switches are all on. That was an early tuneup with the 91mm. The 2,200 stall Neal Chance TC was still in there, too.
 
I will wait on the specs from Gene's turbo before can add more to support my theory that your turbine is mismatched. What's Gene's mph and weight?
It is absolutely mismatched. However I dont think that is whats in question.
 
It is absolutely mismatched. However I dont think that is whats in question.
Is that your official position?
I seem to recall having this same argument when I first let it be known that I was planning on putting the 91mm on the small valved Stage I engine. Then the car spit out an 8.70s ET with a crrrappy tuneup on only 30 psi boost. :eek: Ooops!
 
Allright, then. Lazaris has just officially let us all know that it's his professional opinion that I will not be able to make this 91mm work on this new Stage II build.
We'll have to wait and see who's right on this one.
Would anyone else like to come out and make a professional opinion? Bet for, or against me making this work?
 
Allright, then. Lazaris has just officially let us all know that it's his professional opinion that I will not be able to make this 91mm work on this new Stage II build.
We'll have to wait and see who's right on this one.
Would anyone else like to come out and make a professional opinion? Bet for, or against me making this work?

Don, Is that what I said?
 
I don;t wan't to cause turmoil with your build/thread , you do what feels right to you Donnie, your thinking outside the box may surprise all of us with this combo. Get it running!
 
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