T-brake and DR............

[ONE_QUIK_6]

Ok, I am not tottally sure about this, but is it possible. I thought that I had heard someone on the other board say they were doing this. I plan on going with 275/60/15. Is it possible, or will it just go up in smoke like all my other dreams.
Thanks

zak

 

[NEARING]

Maybe with a stock converter? Maybe. But I doubt it

 

[KEVINS]

It's possible but you will have to set the chassis up properly for the combo and it depends on the stall. This involves relocating the Instant Center of the rear suspension by welding new brackets and drilling new holes, good adjustable shocks, etc.
I just helped set up a chassis for a Stang and it went an all time best of 9.20@149 w/ 60' 1.42 on 325/50-15 BFG DR's at Columbus last weekend and he runs a Tbrake.

ks

 

[ONE_QUIK_6]

Kevan, could you maybe help me out a little here, such as what you say a tight converter would be better and on this instant center stuff. I read your webpage and wonder if the bracket you talk about is different for every vehicle or is there a general place I could start. Thanks

Zak

 

[KEVINS]

No problem...
I don't know if you are familiar with the term Instant Center but if you were to draw an imaginary line through the upper control arms and the lower control arms, they would eventually intersect. The position of this intersection is called the Instant Center. The position of the Instant Center (IC) relative to the Center of Gravity determines how the chassis reacts. On these TR's the IC is really messed up and some IC's are located BEHIND the car. In order to "relocate" the IC to a better position, the angles of the upper and/or lower control arms need to be changed by redrilliing new holes. Sometimes this requires welding new plates in a position so holes can be drilled. Yes the hole position is going to be different for about every car. The best thing to do is get me the measurements of your car and I'll plot you a graph of what it looks like now and from there we can determine what may be needed.
You can send me a PM or email me at kdslaby@yahoo.com if you'd like..
A tighter converter than "normal" will help but "shocking" the suspension is still a good thing to get the suspension working in your favor. It's a fine line sometimes and having the ability to adjust the rpm/boost is always good (if possible) for a serious racer..

ks

 

[Kansas T]

My true radial tires hooked up better off the tranny brake then they did off the foot brake. That was with a really loose stock convertor.

 

[SubZero350]

The other problem with the G-bodies pertaining to instant centers is that actually 2 are formed relative to the width of the car due to the seperate angles of the control arms. The GNX suspension actually addressed this problem by removing the 2 upper arms and adopting a torque arm with a pan-hard or "track" bar like that used in the 3rd gen F-bodies. This is one of the best all-around setups for a street/strip car considering the demands of street driving. For an all-out drag car, a custom 4-link (not like your stock setup) is hard to beat but is not made to corner.

I am not a big fan of trans breaks. Yes I meant BREAK. It might get your poorly setup suspension to react, but it can (and most likely will) have catastrophic effects on driveline components. Are a couple of tenths worth an axle or pinion?

You would be better off upgrading your rear brakes and installing a line-lock device which would keep all driveline components loaded before the launch. If that still doesn't help you, try moving the battery to the trunk and/or get some better tires.

 

[azgn]

subzero, I don't see a turbo car in your resume, so I question your knowledge of trans brakes and TR's......I disagree with your theory......I have made many hundreds of runs using a trans brake with no unusual breakage....these cars will launch hard and fast with high boost and you cannot get that with foot brakes (unless you are in the 750 hp and up area)....of course, I have upgraded the driveline parts and anyone using a t-brake should do so....racing is hard on parts....period...build the car for the task at hand

I would not give up my 1.4x 60' times just to be gentle on the drivetrain!

 

[SubZero350]

Originally posted by azgn
subzero, I don't see a turbo car in your resume, so I question your knowledge of trans brakes and TR's......I disagree with your theory......I have made many hundreds of runs using a trans brake with no unusual breakage....these cars will launch hard and fast with high boost and you cannot get that with foot brakes (unless you are in the 750 hp and up area)....of course, I have upgraded the driveline parts and anyone using a t-brake should do so....racing is hard on parts....period...build the car for the task at hand

I would not give up my 1.4x 60' times just to be gentle on the drivetrain!

here we go with the internet experts again. i may not have a TR, but I do hold a degree in high performance automotive and work with many fast cars, including TR's on a daily basis. (I hope this answers your question on my knowledge of trans brakes and TRs) By the way, what do you mean by "unusual breakage"? Is there such a thing as normal breakage?

I never said a "foot" brake would hold an ultra-hi HP car running 8 sec 1/4 miles. Nor did I make claim that a $30,000 driveline would break by the use of a trans brake. It was merely my intension to post information that might be helpful to those who are thinking about using a trans brake in any application in which stock components might be used in the driveline. I have built many transmissions, and have a close friend who owns his own successful transmission shop and can tell you many true stories about what these trans-brakes do to the drivetrain, including the transmission itself. I am not talking to the people here who are running 8s, 9s, or maybe even low 10s. I just thought I would let some of the more conservative people on this board know what it was they were getting into and if it would be worth it considering the potential costs involved.

 

[azgn]

I am not going to debate your credentials, just your experience with racing TR's which apparently is 0.....I agree one should not use any high performance device and not expect some problems, so from that standpoint we agree

all parts on a race car have a finite life.....that is the nature of the beast.....I consider unusual breakage a premature failure of an upgraded part

I agree a stock GN should not use a t-brake

If you want to go fast in a medium HP (5-600) GN, you WILL have a t-brake

I am no internet expert, but apparently you are!

 

[SubZero350]

Originally posted by azgn
I am not going to debate your credentials, just your experience with racing TR's which apparently is 0.....I agree one should not use any high performance device and not expect some problems, so from that standpoint we agree

all parts on a race car have a finite life.....that is the nature of the beast.....I consider unusual breakage a premature failure of an upgraded part

I agree a stock GN should not use a t-brake

If you want to go fast in a medium HP (5-600) GN, you WILL have a t-brake

I am no internet expert, but apparently you are!

Oh yes, my GN experience is 0. I am sure, compaired to you that is, I know absolutely nothing when it comes to turbo regals. I mean there is no possible way i would know, that according to my data and research that billet input shafts for the 2004r don't last as long as the stock ones in a 9sec application because they are more brittle. I also would not know that most high-volume front covers will require the cam button to be shimmed because of the difference in clearances that would otherwise allow the cam to walk forward. I also would not know that stock GN rods are of the CAST design, which is one of the reasons why those motors cannot take hi revvs. I also wouldn't know that although the stock turbo crank is of the rolled-fillet design which tends to make a crank a little stronger, this can actually be a bad thing due to the increased hardness in the fillet areas being more succeptible to heat checks which will eventually turn into cracks. Not what you want in a true, endurance performance application.

 

[azgn]

hmmmm..I am really glad to learn that 9 sec TR's will break billet input shafts....that is certainly news to me...of course, I have never seen a 9 sec TR with a 2004R in it! You learn something everyday

and jeez, all that other stuff is really interesting too

 

[SubZero350]

Originally posted by azgn
of course, I have never seen a 9 sec TR with a 2004R in it! You learn something everyday

well i have... they will hold together if you build them right. but, I doubt that "old school" technique wouldn't do you any good when building a 2004r anyways.

 

[Kansas T]

Well, it started out as a good thread. If you dont have anything good to say, dont say anything.

 

[WE4]

Originally posted by SubZero350




I mean there is no possible way i would know, that according to my data and research that billet input shafts for the 2004r don't last as long as the stock ones in a 9sec application because they are more brittle.

Ok, I dont know about all this fillet motor stuff and I dont care. But when you make a claim such as you have above , know what the hell you are talking about before you say it. I MAKE those billet shafts and Had Boeing test them in 5 different stress tests. ( 23,000 dollars later) In EVERY test , they would take over 1400 ftlbs of torque, testing either for yield, tensile or shock. In EVERY test our products never had even .001 twist or fatigue. BRITTLE? That is hogwash. Crap even. They are perfect. Not ONE reported failure to date even in testing. So like I said, I dont know much about the other stuff but the part you singled out is one outstanding piece. Your data and reasearch is WRONG!

And just to drop a hint, the brake you are speaking of that breaks parts does in fact break parts. The design is that of a hugh neutral drop. Ugly thing it is and more of a novelty. This does and will take its toll.
However unlike the one you are mentioning,the Batbrake Transbrake, has addressed this and will in fact not hurt these parts. So, in light of that, make sure you do not make a blanket statement covering them too. I am the only one making these billet shafts and I think if one ever failed I would be the FIRST to know. I can provide you with the Boeing tests if you wish to carry this on further. Brittle, sheesh. what a crock!

I have no animosity here , just want the facts presented.

"Just the facts Ma'am, just the facts!" LOL