Steel Shim Or Felpro

6SENSE

Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2001
Well guys, looks like I waited too long to deal with the lifter preload problem. One pushrod got out from under the rocker and wedged itself along side it. Cracked/bent the pushrod and I believe the valve is bent because the valve spring is stuck compressed (valve stuck open). All of this while I was just warming the car up to move around back to work on it :mad: .

Well, Ive had the 86-87 gaskets which I am told are most probably the cause of the problem. Only one thing that contradicts this, and doesnt make sense to me, is the fact that I had the same gaskets on the car for the past 12,000 miles with my prior cam and lifters (Poston's gn107 and Auto Zone lifters, Melling I think) and there was never a noisy valvetrain issue, until I put in the new cam and Sealed Power lifters. I have yet to understand or hear an explanation as to why that is :confused: (both lifters have the same 969 part#).
The '87 gaskets did seal very well, through high boost and all, but if I am having to break the engine down I guess I will go with '84 gaskets.
Which gaskets should I go with? If GM '87s are too thick, GM '84s are considerably thinner, dont seal well, and its more likely for you to crack something than blow them, is the Felpro the best choice? Are the .040 Felpros thin enough that they wont cause a lifter preload issue? Do they seal as well as the '87s? I want the least amount of problems with the best performance, everytime I think I have nothing else to do but tune and go fast I run into another silly problem. Steel shim or Felpro? and what to torque to?
TIA, Justin.

P.S. are the Felpro 1000s the stock replacement for the '84? Why are they .022 thicker than the stock steel shim (.040 vs .018), what does this do to the compression ratio?
 
Just called Auto Zone. The part # they gave me for Felpro head gaskets were 8723PT-1. Whats up with these gaskets? Lee, what are the Felpro 1000s?
 
dont you use two steel shims on the 84 gaskets? thus 2x .018" = .036" close enough to .040" for me.
 
you may want to also look at the new cometic gaskets-spring steel shims with rubber coating on both sides for a good seal-these are what im using on my next motor-i think about $52.00 each but worth it.im not sure of the thickness of these new cometic gaskets.HTH
 
the more lift on a cam the smaller the base circle of the cam therefor if it has higher lift then your old one then the non lift part of the lobe is smaller making more clearence

;)
 
Ahh, okay, that makes sense Reds, thanks. The idea did cross my mind, but wasnt sure, needed to hear it from you guys.
Where do you get the cometic gaskets, does sound a little pricey though.
Anyone know whats up with the Felpro 8723PT-1's that they have at Auto Zone ($16.59 ea). What about the Felrpo 1000's that Lee Thompson mentioned, whats the difference and where can you get them (are these designed for 84-85 or 86-87, dont want a lifter pre-load problem w/ stock pushrods again)?

I guess there still is a chance I may use the stock '84 GM. What is the method that you guys use to make these seal? I remember someone mentioning some type of sealant or something, plus are you '84-'85 guys all torquing to 75ft/lbs?
 
far as I know the Felpro 8723PT-1's are regular n/a 3.8 gaskets.

I think I have a couple sets of them laying out in the garage
 
i believe cvproducts.com has the cometic gaskets and also champion heads are selling them-i think the part number is# C5691,i have also heard of alot of people using the NA gaskets having problems with blown head gaskets,i know i wouldnt use them.does anyone know the thickness of these new cometic gaskets?
 
intercooler on this board hada case of the sealant for sale -GE 1200 for about $8.00 a tube.
 
Thanks alot guys. These engines diefinately are something special, never took this much time deciding on some gaskets before!
I definately need to find out the thickness of the cometics before I can really consider them. If 1000 is the part # for the Felpro Lee mentioned, maybe I can look 'em up at the parts store? The steel shims I know I can get, no problem, and will be the correct thickness. Just a little paranoid about sealing after all Ive heard.
Originally posted by 49-blues
intercooler on this board hada case of the sealant for sale -GE 1200 for about $8.00 a tube.
this is the stuff for sealing the GM '84 steel shims, right? The cometics and Felpro 1000's should seal them selves?
I can definately do without constantly taking the engine apart for awhile, its getting a little tiresome. Especially when I have a '87 motor sitting on the engine stand that I could freshen up and put in, its tempting. Im just somewhat dedicated to the '84 (underdog) motor right now, being the premier hotair car in the local GSCA club, if I convert I'll just be another one of the sheep :rolleyes:
 
felpro

Felpro 1000 is the part #. not a stock item!!!
As for torque value
Using motor oil---bottom row 80
top row ----85


Good luck!!
 
Thanks Lee, sounds like the Felpro 1000's might be the best choice for me right now. They seem to have some of the good characteristics of the others combined.
Only one question: IS THE .040 THICKNESS CLOSE ENOUGH TO STOCK THAT INSUFFICIENT LIFTER PRE-LOAD WILL NOT BE AN ISSUE WITH STOCK PUSHRODS AND 204/214 SPEED PRO CAM?
 
Originally posted by 49-blues
does anyone know the thickness of these new cometic gaskets?
49-blues, I had a response on the General Tech board from Fuelie600 that the thickness is .040. He did mention that they are available in several bore sizes.... and optional thicknesses, hmmm.
 
lifter preload

If you have a completely stock 85 or 87 eng. The felpro 1000 will work. There are too many variables involved now, (different cam---have the heads or block been decked, if so how much). If I were you, I would use whatever gasket you like, then check pushrod length. No one can answer these ? as so much has been changed over the years.
 
thanks-i think jason cramer also sells a metal shim head gasket kit and he also uses the GE-1200 silicone.HTH
 
Thanks everyone, I will break the engine down, take a look at everything, and just go from there. I will address each issue one at a time upon reassembly and will probably have another question or two as I tackle them. I obviously did not have enough info on all the variables involved and had some mis-information when I first assembled the motor. I refuse to go through it again this time around. With your guys help I feel like I am not working blind, as I apparently was before, and didnt know it. As long as the bottom end is still in great shape, I expect to be able to put this thing back together better than ever before and not have to dissassemble for stupid reasons. As I alluded to before, it wouldnt have been so bad if I was taking the motor apart to change blown head gaskets after running a fast a$$ ET!
Thanks guys :)
 
noisey lifters,valve train

Going to a different cam, (usually bigger) affects the base circle of the cam, but even that is different for every cam maker. Thus lifter preload is usually affected. 30 to 35 thousands preload is usually sufficient for buick v6 motors, NA and Turbo. Melling offers a 35 thousands longer pushrod that works very well where zero preload has been determined. I believe the part number is MPR 287. Just my info.....
 
LEE and 6SENSE

Guys, help me out here.

I use the Fel-Pro 8723PT gaskets.

Is that not the correct ones ? I saw um listed in the fel-pro catalogue for our turbo 3.8. I used them before I took the heads and intake off to port them and had no problems....

Will I have problems ? Now's the time to tell me. The heads are not back on yet !

They seemed to work fine for me.....

Part number on the box for the entire set is HS 8723 PT-5. The box contains a bunch of gaskets.

Plus I got some Fel-Pro headbolts. They gave me part # ES74022...anyone know if these are correct ?

Check this link to Fel-Pro...it lists these gaskets for our car. Note "9" engine vin code.

http://www.federal-mogul.com/felpro/index.html
 
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