Stage II street car Timing chain or Gear drive

[WIKEDV6]

I am in the process of completing my stage II build. It is a stage II headed solid roller street car that may see 500-1000 miles a year. With 250lbs seat pressure springs on the head and external Duttweiler style oiling system, what is the best choice. I was told by few people that they broke their chain in their stage II motors had suffered a tremendous damage to the engine. Please let me know what you guys think. I do have the gear drive set up on hand.
T I A
Prasad

 

[gnxtc2]

Or

:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: (Image was rotated 180*)

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[Nasty Wendy]

:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: (Image was rotated 180*)

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

Wood Wood Wood!!!!


Give a brother a warning before you do that next time.

 

[chevyII]

did you find a cam? Not from experience but a chain or belt would be my choice.

 

[lazaris]

Billy,

Thats an awesome deal. Who do you get that set up from? Do you have some more info on the install?

 

[Otto J]

Billy,

Thats an awesome deal. Who do you get that set up from? Do you have some more info on the install?

That setup requires a larger bank note to do!

250# springs,What cam and turbo do you plan on using?

 

[gnxtc2]

Billy,

Thats an awesome deal. Who do you get that set up from? Do you have some more info on the install?

Mike Booher sells 'em. Install is pretty basic.

There is more to what you see. You are going to need:
- Belt driven oil pump
- Remote water pump
- Foward facing distributor (Mike modifies your MSD one)

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[lazaris]

Thanks Bill.

 

[turbodave231]

You sure 250# seat pressure is going to be enough? You will lose 10% of that pressure on the first few heat cycles.............and more pressure over time and useage.

My experience with S2 heads, solid roller cams and bent exhaust valves tells me that they like over 300# of seat pressure. The springs I ended up with have 360# at somewhere near 1.90 installed height. If I lost 36 pounds after the first few cycles, that still leaves me around 324#.

David Reher (Reher and Morrison) wrote a article called "The Spring is the Thing" that can be found on their website in their "Tech Talk". I found the article interesting and it applied to my situation. Reher and Morrison has experience with Buick V6 S2 engines. In fact, Bruce Anderson helped Buddy Ingersol build and tune the outlawed Pro Stock Buick Regal V6 engine.

 

[BlownV6]

My experience with S2 heads, solid roller cams and bent exhaust valves tells me that they like over 300# of seat pressure. The springs I ended up with have 360# at somewhere near 1.90 installed height. If I lost 36 pounds after the first few cycles, that still leaves me around 324#. QUOTE

Another crazy member!! Non believers take note!! Mike

 

[WIKEDV6]

did you find a cam? Not from experience but a chain or belt would be my choice.

Well, yes and no. I just have to pick what I want and let them know so they can grind it for me. Leaning towards a 224/228 duration, 112 lobe sep angle and around .600 lift

Prasad

 

[WIKEDV6]

[

250# springs,What cam and turbo do you plan on using?[/QUOTE]

Well the cam is going to be some what close to 224/228 112 lob sep and around 600 lift. I have few turbos on hand . GTQ 71, Q trim 76 or GT 42/76.

Prasad

 

[chevyII]

sent a PM

 

[turbodave231]

Another crazy member!! Non believers take note!! Mike

Mike am I crazy? Have I gone overboard on the springs? The higher rate springs are working OK and I'm not floating valves or breaking any parts.

Tim Cole at Comp gave me a very similar recommendation.

 

[BlownV6]

Sorry for the confusion!! 3 or 4 years ago I was told to put on more than that. I got to checking around with other big name racers outside the Buick community and couldnt believe what I was hearing. I ended up with 450# on the seat just to test this out. I figured I would break everything in the valve train. Quess what!! 300+ passes later I havent had any valve train issues!!
I was just laughing when I saw your post cause I could hear others thinking
THAT DUDE IS CRAZY!! Mike

 

[Otto J]

Some premier engine builder do not believe in this either.
There are a few guys that think that they are out of turbo
when they are really out of spring

 

[d90dan]

Any correlation between high spring rates and timing chain breakage? High lift, high RPM and stiff spring =
From what I've seen lately, chains currently on the market don't hold up as well as the old ones.

 

[turbodave231]

Mike,

450# on the seat!! WOW!

Are you using Jesel rockers? I beleive you can fit a taller spring/longer valves under the Jesel rockers. Any input on this?

I have a pair of heads with Jesel rockers and the spring installed height is 2.090. The tallest spring I can get under the T&D's is installed at 1.90. It was tough to find a high rate spring that would fit at that height without be close to coil bind.


Dan,

I'm using the Rollmaster timing set and I've never broken a chain. I replaced just the chain on the last rebuild. The sprockets looked great but the chain had streched. No problems here.........yet!

Dave

 

[BlownV6]

I use T&D rockers with installed height of 2.00" I use manley #221449 springs
which were used. At 2.00 they are #450 and have stayed that way all this time. Mike

 

[lazaris]

Mike,

450# on the seat!! WOW!

Are you using Jesel rockers? I beleive you can fit a taller spring/longer valves under the Jesel rockers. Any input on this?

I have a pair of heads with Jesel rockers and the spring installed height is 2.090. The tallest spring I can get under the T&D's is installed at 1.90. It was tough to find a high rate spring that would fit at that height without be close to coil bind.



Dave,

It depends on the valve length. I also use more spring pressure. #300 on the seat.