SPC lower control arms - Beware!

Status
Not open for further replies.

scot w.

GNSperformance.com
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
We just received these images from a good customer of ours who wanted to inform us what he found in regards to his SPC lower A-arms and to pass this along to people who already have these or are thinking of purchasing these so they are aware of this issue...

When using the SPC tubular A-arms with a coil over shock, the lower "Trunnion" mount has tendency to bend the lower A-arm shock pocket trunnion mount as pictured below.....

The "Best" mount for Any coil over is to use a dedicated coil over mount..

So far stock G-body lowers have held up well but we will continue to keep an eye on them as the years go by...

SPC1.jpg

SPC2.jpg


SPC3.jpg
 
Last edited:
BEWARE IS RIGHT !

Beware putting a combination of parts together without doing your research!
The SPC lower arm is one of the best around. It is designed to use a conventional spring/shock combo. while giving you adjustable ride height (like a coil over), but it also maintains a constant spring rate over the entire range of ride height adjustment (unlike a coil over).
It Can be used with coil overs also - hundreds of people do - as long as you use the required coil over mount and spacer plate (which I do not see in the pictures).

http://spcalignment.com/component/s...=Regal&year=1978 - 1987&from=USAFrom&to=USATo
 
BEWARE IS RIGHT !

Beware putting a combination of parts together without doing your research!
The SPC lower arm is one of the best around. It is designed to use a conventional spring/shock combo. while giving you adjustable ride height (like a coil over), but it also maintains a constant spring rate over the entire range of ride height adjustment (unlike a coil over).
It Can be used with coil overs also - hundreds of people do - as long as you use the required coil over mount and spacer plate (which I do not see in the pictures).

http://spcalignment.com/component/spc/?task=part_description&pid=95336&region=USA&make=Buick&model=Regal&year=1978 - 1987&from=USAFrom&to=USATo

John,

Your right I don't see that spacer either which is used a lot on other a-arms to carry the extra load of the coil overs.... This was his set up before we knew him, I think he bought all his stuff from Marcus at the time but I agree the spacers should have been used, maybe they are and we just can't see them I'm not sure....
 
Last edited:
I agree with T-CHRGD. This seems to be a failure due to improper installation (ie, not using the correct coil over mount). I think given the fact that these details are unknown, this post is simply product libel in order to sell another product. I don't own either lower control arm so I don't have a dog in this fight. I feel a more appropriate approach to help the TB community would have been to inform others that when using SPC lower control arms with coil overs the correct mounting rings must be purchased separately and used to avoid this type of failure.

Paul
 
I agree with T-CHRGD. This seems to be a failure due to improper installation (ie, not using the correct coil over mount). I think given the fact that these details are unknown, this post is simply product libel in order to sell another product. I don't own either lower control arm so I don't have a dog in this fight. I feel a more appropriate approach to help the TB community would have been to inform others that when using SPC lower control arms with coil overs the correct mounting rings must be purchased separately and used to avoid this type of failure.

Paul
Hi Paul,

With all due respect this was in no way Product Libel or bashing another product in order to sell another product and if it came off that way I apologize. It was simply to "Aware" others to this issue regarding those Arms and regardless of what was or wasn't done properly.....I guess the bottom line here is, They bent and people can learn from it......
 
Last edited:
This post/thread is in no way a "bashing" of the SPC arms in order to promote another company's product. This was just very alarming to me so I sent the pics to Scott to see.

I will clear the air by saying that I did not use the coilover spacer mounts that SPC sells. At the time of installation I was unaware that they even existed and were needed.

Now...on to another issue I noticed recently........

It seems to me that the ball joint "plate" on the lower control arms is bent. This piece is supposed to be straight but mine are bending? The passenger side is no where near as bad as the driver side is.

Take a look at the pics and let me know whet you think could be causing this? I guess this is what I get for actually racing my car on a regular basis......










 
This was just very alarming to me so I sent the pics to Scott to see.
But, you did Not send the pics to SPC, or the company you bought the arms from ????

Take a look at the pics and let me know whet you think could be causing this?
If you're bending the shock mounting plate, and the thick steel ball joint plate, you definitely have a serious issue. The cause is most likely that you are bottoming out the coilovers. Either the springs are coil binding, or you are bottoming out the shock piston in the shock body. When the spring/shock run out of bump travel, the entire weight of the car comes slamming down into the lower control arm. This happens more often than people realize with coilovers, and it's not always obvious, but the results are.
 
Sicmonte,

First off I wanna say nice car! I like seeing more and more pro-touring G-bodies. I was trying to keep my mouth shut and let this thread die but the truth is I know for a fact Scot was trying to bash SPC to sell another product. You see, the very first time I met Scot (at the GS nationals last year) I was looking at buying a set of coilovers and was interested in the ridetech truturn setup(lowers and coilovers only) so I went by his booth to talk to him and the ridetech reps. When I was trying to explain my current setup and mentioned I had the upper SPC's with my AFX spindles he arrogantly responded "I'm sorry you have those" and commenced to bash them. Instead of trying to help me with my combo he was more interested in sharing his negative opinions of any product I brought up that he didn't sell. Needless to say it wasn't an impressive first impression and I went on my way. Like I said earlier, I wanted to keep my mouth shut since he is a well respected vendor/supporter of this site but when improper installations are obviously the cause of these issues I just couldn't. That being said I would recommend you post your setup so members here can help you figure out why your having so many problems. I would also venture to say that your coil overs may be bottoming out as it isn't too uncommon with the g body, there isn't much room there.

Paul
 
Last edited:
The very first time I met Scot (at the GS nationals last year) I was looking at buying a set of coilovers and was interested in the ridetech truturn setup(lowers and coilovers only) so I went by his booth to talk to him and the ridetech reps. When I was trying to explain my current setup and mentioned I had the upper SPC's with my AFX spindles.

Paul
Let me see if I understand you right Paul. You wanted to combine the SPC uppers and AFX spindles with some of the parts from a ridetech tru/turn kit to correct some of the issues you're having? According to Marcus, he has everything "matched" from different manufactures so that the parts that weren't made to work together so you shouldn't have any issues. Sounds like our current government, doesn't it.:ROFLMAO: Buying parts from different kits and trying to make them work is like installing 15" tires on one side of the car and 20's on the other.You can make it work but that doesn't make things right.;)
 
Charlie,

I'm not sure how you got the impression that I was having "issues". My front suspensions currently works great but as anything on these cars it has a lot of room for improvement. The reason I'm mixing manufacturers is because I believe different designs have pros and cons to each.

This should probably be a different thread but if you want to know why I'm mixing and matching I'll explain. I like the SPC uppers because of the adjustability they offer, no other control arms that I've seen match that and they work perfect with the ATS spindle. I went for the ATS spindle because of the tall design affording me better camber gain, better hub design, and a variety of brake options that are more cost effective than any of the current kits available for the front of our cars. Now I'm interested in gaining more Caster and keeping the wheel centered in the wheel well for clearance and upgrading my springs and shocks. It's my understanding that both the ridetech and SPC LCA's move the pickup point forward to get you an additional 1 degree and better center the wheel in high caster applications. Now, I like how the SPC's allow the use of conventional or coil over springs but I really like how the Ridetech's have a lowered coilover mount to give us more room to keep the coilovers from bottoming out. This is where I went to talk to Scot and see if the pickup points on the ride tech arms are different than that of the SPC's. If it's the same or very close I plan on buying the Ridetechs with their coilovers... Pretty simple right?

Paul
 
Last edited:
According to Marcus, he has everything "matched" from different manufactures

Yes, that's what he does. :)

In case you weren't aware, suspension companies don't make all their own parts. Very few make their own springs, or swaybars, and many other parts. They call out their specs, and have a big spring company, or a big swaybar company, or another manufacturer, make the part and put Their sticker on it.
It really is no different than calling out specs for a kit, and picking the parts (Yes, from different manufacturers) that work great together.

I would really be interested in seeing that rebuilt motor, with the FelPro gaskets, FelPro bearings, FelPro pistons...........
That's the only way it will work, right?
 
Charlie,

I'm not sure how you got the impression that I was having "issues". My front suspensions currently works great but as anything on these cars it has a lot of room for improvement. The reason I'm mixing manufacturers is because I believe different designs have pros and cons to each.

This should probably be a different thread but if you want to know why I'm mixing and matching I'll explain. I like the SPC uppers because of the adjustability they offer, no other control arms that I've seen match that and they work perfect with the ATS spindle. I went for the ATS spindle because of the tall design affording me better camber gain, better hub design, and a variety of brake options that are more cost effective than any of the current kits available for the front of our cars. Now I'm interested in gaining more Caster and keeping the wheel centered in the wheel well for clearance and upgrading my springs and shocks. It's my understanding that both the ridetech and SPC LCA's move the pickup point forward to get you an additional 1 degree and better center the wheel in high caster applications. Now, I like how the SPC's allow the use of conventional or coil over springs but I really like how the Ridetech's have a lowered coilover mount to give us more room to keep the coilovers from bottoming out. This is where I went to talk to Scot and see if the pickup points on the ride tech arms are different than that of the SPC's. If it's the same or very close I plan on buying the Ridetechs with their coilovers... Pretty simple right?

Paul
Kinda simple Paul. The issue is, you're wanting something that was designed as a complete kit to be used with a stock steering knuckle, and adding 2 parts that weren't intended to work with them. If something's designed to work together as a kit you'll be much happier with the kit as a whole rather than piecing things together. If you're interested in a wider front track I know that you can adapt a set of A/B body front arms to a G body and move the front track out almost 6" which will make it handle much better.;) Parts are also a lot less expensive so you could experiment a little:D
Yes, that's what he does. :)

In case you weren't aware, suspension companies don't make all their own parts. Very few make their own springs, or swaybars, and many other parts. They call out their specs, and have a big spring company, or a big swaybar company, or another manufacturer, make the part and put Their sticker on it.
It really is no different than calling out specs for a kit, and picking the parts (Yes, from different manufacturers) that work great together.

I would really be interested in seeing that rebuilt motor, with the FelPro gaskets, FelPro bearings, FelPro pistons...........
That's the only way it will work, right?
Um....you did know that Federal Mogul owns most of the companies you tried not to mention on the gaskets and bearings, right?;) Looks like one company does in fact make the parts you were mentioning, but it's done by divisions of the parent company, not by different companies that have nothing other than the fact that they made parts differently for the same car.:eek:

I'd really like to see the testing facilities that Marcus has developed himself for testing all the parts that he's developing or designing. I'd bet it's a really advanced machine facility and test track.:ROFLMAO:

Now in comparison, the guys at Felpro actually take the factory designs (gaskets) and either make them for the OE manufacturer or do a slight re-design and then test said parts in their facilities. If I remember right, Felpro, and Buick division of GM, worked together to make the gaskets for the Buick Indy cars, and Felpro did the testing before GM got to do some testing themselves.:cool:

While Marcus may have found parts that will fit the same car and do a specific job, they're not matched together for that purpose, except by Marcus. No one, including the manufacturer, match those parts together, which should tell you something.:rolleyes: I believe Hotchkiss and Ridetech are the only ones currently making complete "kits" for a GM metric midsize car. If someone else is making a complete kit by themselves I'd really like to know about it.

Now I'm just a simple mechanic with an AAS in Auto Service Technology (Hell yes, I'm a Texas AGGIE!!! GO A&M!!!!!) in addition to 274 hours in mechanical engineering, education, and Engineering management college classes, so I'm sure my 32 years in the automotive service industry don't mean much, but I did start out in SCCA GT1 Corvettes and ended up in FF 1600 cars so I'm sure I've absorbed something on chassis and steering set up.:p
 
Charlie,

By your comments it's obvious you've drank a little too much of your home made wine and are now looking to get into a pissing contest. I'm not wanting to argue with you and respect your opinion about complete "kits". But just because it's part of a complete kit does not mean that it won't work with other manufacturers parts. I'm sure that with your 274 hours of aggie education your able to understand simple geometry and would agree that if the lower ball joint pick up points are the same between the 2 control arms I'm considering that they would be interchangeable.

Paul
 
Didn't say it would work Paul, but, it doesn't mean that it won't cause some sort of issue. That was my point. I've fit 98 Mauser short actions in 98 long action stocks and after it was done it was fine, but it wasn't that pretty when it was done.
 
Kinda simple Paul. The issue is, you're wanting something that was designed as a complete kit to be used with a stock steering knuckle, and adding 2 parts that weren't intended to work with them. If something's designed to work together as a kit you'll be much happier with the kit as a whole rather than piecing things together. If you're interested in a wider front track I know that you can adapt a set of A/B body front arms to a G body and move the front track out almost 6" which will make it handle much better.;) Parts are also a lot less expensive so you could experiment a little:D

So you are saying don't mix and match parts... but as long as you do it with junkyard parts, it's okay. Got it. With 274 credit hours of college education, I hope you have a Ph.D.

I saw the original post prior to the edit that occurred on March 19 per the tag on the bottom... it contained a tasteless plug for another vendor's product, IMO.

Sorry to see the failure, SicMonte. It's definitely a reminder to all of us who modify cars to double check everything. Even parts designed to work together can have interference from a factory defect, previous crash damage, or tolerance stackup issue. Hope you're able to get back up and running soon.
 
So you are saying don't mix and match parts... but as long as you do it with junkyard parts, it's okay. Got it. With 274 credit hours of college education, I hope you have a Ph.D.

I saw the original post prior to the edit that occurred on March 19 per the tag on the bottom... it contained a tasteless plug for another vendor's product, IMO.

Sorry to see the failure, SicMonte. It's definitely a reminder to all of us who modify cars to double check everything. Even parts designed to work together can have interference from a factory defect, previous crash damage, or tolerance stackup issue. Hope you're able to get back up and running soon.
Mix and match all you want, but if you take only a few parts from one kit and use other parts that aren't intended to go with that kit then don't expect everything to work the way you're hoping. AFX knuckles were intended to be used with stock or stock after market replacement arms and the tru/turn system was designed to work with the stock steering knuckle to correct a lot of the faults of the stock system. So if you add the AFX knuckle to the system (The AFX knuckle is supposed to correct the faults of the stock knuckle btw, which is already corrected in the tru/turn system) then you're overcompensating like you seem to be doing now.:eek: If you had access to mechanical desktop and the stress management programs used in CAD then you could see where the faults would occur.

There are limits to the stock chassis and unless you're willing to spend some serious money for a Schwarts (sp) chassis then you have to figure out what parts will work best for what you want to do. A "kit" or system that was designed to work together will always work better than mismatched parts from different manufacturers that aren't supposed to work together, but should make your vehicle handle better. maybe, but they'll be better than stock, right?

As far as having so many frigging hours, it's because I would go for 2 years and then take 1 to 1.5 years off so I could save some money to pay for school. Try working full time, running a business, and carrying at least 16 hours a semester and see how you do. Each time I took a break the requirements changed, especially for the education degree, and I had to have more classes. Both engineering majors required basic CAD when I started and then 3D cad, and then a profiling CAD system with animated stress testing of what you designed. The engineering management degree required an apprenticeship and the education degree required a semester of student teaching. If I hadn't lost my job and my business partner hadn't sunk us I would've had multiple degrees and over 300 hours total.
 
Charlie,

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Not sure why you took a jab about me "overcompensating" but I guess I'll just let these pictures do the talking for me.

Paul

P.S. Hook em Horns!
image.jpg
image.jpg
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top