Series II L67 Grand National??!!??

lol, 3800pro is not going to be able to help him with that harness, trust me on that ; - )

dave would be your best bet, ill direct him to this thread again and see if he has time. I know its alot more than 1 post worth on info. he completely built the harness for the application, it wasnt just a tap this wire for that wire kind of setup.

and scott cook or anybody on 3800pro except trannyman isnt going to be able to help you with how he did my setup.
 
Any updates? Just wondering how the 3800 powered Grand National is holding up thru drag race season and if anything new has been learned about what works/doesn't work regarding the life expectancy of the factory parts under high boost.

I'm still just collecting parts to convert my 1981 Malibu, but this thread convinced me to take the boosted v6 path rather than swap in an LS1 powertrain like so many others have done. I'd like to thank Trannyman95 (Triple Edge Performance) for helping me out by providing details on how to modify the Olds 307 motor mounts to work with the 3800. I still have yet to use them, but I'm confident that they'll work just fine when I do.
 
Look below the bottom of the quick reply sections and check out the link backs to this thread. I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for.
 
Cutlass3800 said:
Any updates? Just wondering how the 3800 powered Grand National is holding up thru drag race season and if anything new has been learned about what works/doesn't work regarding the life expectancy of the factory parts under high boost.
Click to expand...

It is my understanding that this engine is superior to the LC2 in almost every way. Better bottom end, better block , roller cam, etc

If some one had a kit for this I would have already done it, its a no brainer in my book. Better setup all the way around. to me its either the series II or III or a V-8 swap I'm done with the LC2s.................

I know of no LC2 ( same mods ) that can run the times xXch0dyXx has with his Series II ( L67 )swap.
 
really no updates guys, car has been in the paint shop pretty much all season. im going to make it to at least one event this year with fresh paint, axles, and driveshaft. Paint is just to make me feel better, but ill actually be able to try and launch hard and maybe do some track prep this time around

If i turn the boost past 18psi for the first time, i dont think 10.8 will be an issue at all. esp if i drop tire pressure, pump the air bags, and let the car cool b4 stagine:)

we did do a little work on the car this year to get a little more seat pressure, and added a genII translator with wideband tracking. Just gotta get it dialed in a little

i will be posting pics and updates after i get the car back for those interested, thanx for all the kind words:biggrin:
 
Trannyman95 said:
The mods are as follows.....
-Stock 98 L67 shortblock
-Ported 06 L26 NA heads
-60 lb/hr injectors
-Stattama Stg 2 turbo cam
-Stock 97 F-body 3800 intake manifold and throttle body
-LS1 MAF
-TE60 turbo, 4" inlet 2.5" outlet comp housing
-3" GN downpipe (Cody knows the brand), Modified for this engine arrangement
-Custom built forward swept log style headers. All 14ga stainless tubing 1 5/8" primaries going into 2" tube. Both side Y directly under the turbo flange
-Alky Control Alky injection
-Cartech style front mount intercooler
-Fully built 4L60E trans
-Vigilante 3K stall converter
-Hooker Catback exhaust
-98 F-body 3800 pcm
-Custom built wiring harness
-97 F-body dual electric fans
Click to expand...
I've got a stack of questions I was hoping you could answer. :)
Did you remove the balance shaft?
Are you running a single-row or a double-row timing chain?
105 pound valve springs?
Does the LS1 MAF just bolt on to the v6 upper intake?
Did you have to build an AC delete pulley? What did you use?
Please PM me a price for a similarly built 4l60e transmission.

Thanks!
 
Cutlass3800 said:
I've got a stack of questions I was hoping you could answer. :)
Did you remove the balance shaft?
Are you running a single-row or a double-row timing chain?
105 pound valve springs?
Does the LS1 MAF just bolt on to the v6 upper intake?
Did you have to build an AC delete pulley? What did you use?
Please PM me a price for a similarly built 4l60e transmission.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I dont know if Dave is watching this thread

he owns triple edge performance google it and send him an e-mail , he builds a mean trans too BTW
 
Cutlass3800 said:
I've got a stack of questions I was hoping you could answer. :)
Did you remove the balance shaft?
-No
Are you running a single-row or a double-row timing chain?
-OE Style Timing chain and dampener
105 pound valve springs?
-Comp 105lb @ seat springs with .030" shims to raise pressure a hair
Does the LS1 MAF just bolt on to the v6 upper intake?
-The LS1 style MAF has a shoulder on both sides that require you to use a rubber/silicone coupler to attach it to the intake pipe and throttle body
Did you have to build an AC delete pulley? What did you use?
-Things got creative here lol! I used the F-body style accessory arrangement with no AC compressor for the time being though AC may be added down the road, but it was already off of the car when Cody aquired it so it wasnt a big priority at the time. I took part of a 4.2 I6 Trailblazer idler pulley bracket, milled about half of it off and drilled and tapped a few holes to bolt it to a bracket that bolts to the engine. This allowed me to use a small grooved pulley and keep it away from the turbo yet keep things simple and routed properly
Please PM me a price for a similarly built 4l60e transmission.
-I recieved your email, I will send you a reply with details.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I replied above in BOLD
 
So far I've identified only a handful of wires off of the interior harness you need. 3 of the OBD2 wires are needed, fuel level, fuel pump power, AC clutch command (if you want AC), CEL, and I think there is another one but I'm not remembering what it was. I took a whole harness out of a Grand Prix SE and stripped it down to the stuff I thought I might use and am in the process of splicing it into my original harness and running new wires for my fuel pump relays. Anything else you can think of that I'd need?
 
Trannyman95 said:
I replied above in BOLD
Click to expand...
Cool - thanks for the reply! I'm not looking to build an all-out racer and would be happy hitting the 11's in something I can drive comfortably every day so I'm grateful to you and Cody for sharing as much as you have.
 
L67 heads?

Whats the reason for not trying to use the L67 heads? I would think the injectors would be better in the head port for performance right? I understand it was easier to do it the way you did because you were using the L36 intake, but is there any way to use the L67 lower (maybe a custom sheet metal doghouse) OR the L36 intake and block the injector bungs in the intake and use the L67 heads and it's stock injector locations in the head ports? Why did GM do it? Was it due to lack of room in the SC intake for injectors or was it a performance thing?

I just got my hands on a 98 Rivi with the S2 SC3800 for a winter beater and it runs and looks great for 450.00 bucks. It needed intake gaskets and the previous owner could not afford the labor cost and wanted to wash her hands of it, so I ended up with alot of car for a small sum. I am driving it for now and it has 210k on it and still pulls like an ox and runs quiet and smooth as silk. I remembered this post and will def be using this L67 in my 86 GN eventually. The only thing I still don't know about is which heads/injector setup I want to use. The L67 in port setup sure looks better with the injector spraying directly at the valve like that,what do you think?
 
TurboBuickSix said:
Whats the reason for not trying to use the L67 heads? I would think the injectors would be better in the head port for performance right? I understand it was easier to do it the way you did because you were using the L36 intake, but is there any way to use the L67 lower (maybe a custom sheet metal doghouse) OR the L36 intake and block the injector bungs in the intake and use the L67 heads and it's stock injector locations in the head ports? Why did GM do it? Was it due to lack of room in the SC intake for injectors or was it a performance thing?
Click to expand...

I can answer this one for you. The reason GM installed the injectors into the heads on L67 applications was for no reason other than to clear the SC housing. There is no performance increase or advantage to doing this. In fact, I remember reading that one of the L67 vendors did some flow tests using stock L36 heads vs. L67 heads and found the injector bumps in the L67 head ports restricted flow some. So the L36 heads are better in that they don't have this restriction.

Secondly, trying to use L67 heads with a L36 intake would mean you would need to plug a set of injector holes = more work/expense. And custom fabbing up a custom sheet metal intake to work with the L67 lower intake would be very expensive and time consuming, not to mention it would leave you with very little to no intake runners at all. The F-body L36 intake has runners set up in a tunnel-ram style which help off-boost performance and don't seem to restrict on-boost performance either (at least we haven't found that it is a restriction).

I just got my hands on a 98 Rivi with the S2 SC3800 for a winter beater and it runs and looks great for 450.00 bucks. It needed intake gaskets and the previous owner could not afford the labor cost and wanted to wash her hands of it, so I ended up with alot of car for a small sum. I am driving it for now and it has 210k on it and still pulls like an ox and runs quiet and smooth as silk. I remembered this post and will def be using this L67 in my 86 GN eventually. The only thing I still don't know about is which heads/injector setup I want to use. The L67 in port setup sure looks better with the injector spraying directly at the valve like that,what do you think?
Click to expand...

The L36 injector placement also directs injector spray right onto the intake valves. Just a little further away vs. L67. If you want to spend the money and time trying to use L67 heads -- go for it. But with the kind of mileage you have on your engine, they probably need to be rebuilt anyway (so why not just get a set of L36 heads?)...

-ryan
 
Ok thanks for clearing that up. I will be watching CL for a 4th Gen F body for the rest of the parts. I just rebuilt my original 3.8 20k ago and it's holding up pretty good, so I have time to get this together.
 
Any franken engine, that was literally just thrown together and dropped in, that runs 11.3 RIGHT OFF THE STREET with no race preps, and that is brand new to it's driver, with only 17 degrees of boost is nothing short of a miracle. That is outstanding. Now you got me thinking... Hmmm. And the blocks are stronger than our 109's? Hmmmm.
 
Cross-bolted mains are stock; makes it a lot stronger right off the bat. Only bad thing I don't like about the Series 2 is the 1" shorter deck height = shorter connecting rods = more side loading on the piston and less piston dwell.
 
I did a post on this similar topic and didn't have any one think much of it. I'd just finished a tubo kit on a 98 Camaro and with a TA49 on a stock engine went 12.70's on regular radials leaving with no boost 2.xx 60'. Been running 2 seasons now.. going on 3d this coming spring. These SeriesII engines are awsome.
They are cheap and plentifull.
I hope someone takes advantage of this and makes a complete swap kit.
The seriesII is a lot better with driveability than standard 3.8. He's not kidding there at
all. Much better all around in every way.
I don't think we've seen the end of this thread or the end of more guys going this way.
ZZperformance makes allum. heads now and cams and flanges to make your own headers.
Two thumbs up for a job well done and great info here!
~Scott
 
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