Rebuilding 84HA engine. Ideas??

[Donniejr81]

I'm getting ready to do a stock to mild rebuild on an low mileage 84GN engine for my Regal. I'll be keeping the stock bore/stroke, heads, and intake. I have a turbo from an 87GN and it looks a little larger than the 84 turbo, I'd like to use that one. Is all I have to do is "clock it". I'm looking for some ideas/input on how to rebuild this motor on a budget (I'm a college student), but give it a little more $hit in its britches at the same time. Cam? Exhaust? Air intake? I'm new to the turbo buick world, I jumped aboard from the Mopar and Corvette crowd. Thanks in advance.

 

[85_Daphne]

hey man. nice to hear. welcome to the dark side. im pretty much in the same boat as you. im a college student completely redoing an 84 t-type WH1 packaged car. i had to have mine bored, but am using the heads and intake.

one way i found out i could put a little more hitch in my giddy up was im going to run an e85 mix. the stock turbo for the 84/85's will crank out 20 lbs of boost from what i've been told. the poston buick website is where i'll be getting my rebuild kit. i've asked around and they seem to be pretty reputable. jerryl, boost231, BRAD_PADGETT and Hot Air are the gentleman i go to for advice and they havent steered me wrong yet. good luck. Where about are u going to school at?

 

[Boost231]

welcome. You said motor is a low mileage motor why the rebuild? As far as Cam stick with the stock unless there is something wrong with it then go with a 206/206. As far as exhaust i would check the vendors and see what you like. This is the exhaust system i like STAINLESS CATBACK EXHAUST right now since it looks like my current ATR system. As far as the Air intake system i would get it from the same company HOT AIR Big Mouth Cold Air Induction System Page best system by far. Get the full kit which will get the air filter out of the engine bay

 

[Donniejr81]

The engine only has about 75K on it, but has been sitting for quite awhile. It ran when pulled from the donor car. I'm just wanting to reseal everything, new bearings, oil pump, T/C, rings, just so that way I know what I have. I dont have the engine totally apart yet, but I'm counting on a new cam and lifters for peace of mind as well.

I checked out the exhaust and air intake boost231 mentioned...most definitely food for thought, as is the cam too.

 

[O SO LO]

Welcome aboard...lots of reading material on here, Look through the stickies up on top...

 

[Jerryl]

I'm getting ready to do a stock to mild rebuild on an low mileage 84GN engine for my Regal. I'll be keeping the stock bore/stroke, heads, and intake. I have a turbo from an 87GN and it looks a little larger than the 84 turbo, I'd like to use that one. Is all I have to do is "clock it". I'm looking for some ideas/input on how to rebuild this motor on a budget (I'm a college student), but give it a little more $hit in its britches at the same time. Cam? Exhaust? Air intake? I'm new to the turbo buick world, I jumped aboard from the Mopar and Corvette crowd. Thanks in advance.

Donnie,
Welcome. :biggrin:

A few pointers from lots of reading and experiences;
1- List your goals and stick to them!
2 - NEVER FORGET; There is no such thing as a budget rebuild, since your build and goals will always exceed the budget!
3 - DO NOT rebuild the engine as a std SBC build. It will fail! (do a search on this)
4 - Spend part of the current budget on tuning tools (Recording type scantool and WB set-up). This will help to get the car running GOOD first, without KR. You will be MUCH further ahead than just adding performance "parts".
5 - The 87 turbo "may" seem attractive for now, but it will leak if not retrofitted with the correct seals for a Hot Air car. Some had good luck, but you are rolling the dice.
6 - As frustrating as it can get, don't forget to "Have fun"!


Edit;
Some of the experts here who have not been mentioned, come to mind, started this Hot Air thing and put the numbers down are;
Duane, Lee Thompson, Turbo6x2, and many others (forgot quite a few). Read, read, read.

 

[Donniejr81]

Thanks for the input. As far as goals, my main one would be to efficiently send those friggin Mustangs around here scurrying with their tails between their legs!! While maintaining daily driveability, and some sense of economy. I do realize the faster your speedo moves, the faster your gas gauge moves. LOL I was interested in using the 87 turbo mainly because it looks to have been rebuilt not long ago and is in very good shape, and I already have it which is a plus.

The actual mechanical part of the rebuild/retro fit will be no prob for me. The biggest hurdles I'm facing is the Scantool usage, and the seemingly limitless tuning that can be done with the FI and ECM chips on these cars. I definitely want the car to run GOOD (its best actually), and be able to get the best results out of what few mods I will do to it. Thanks again.

 

[Boost231]

87 turbo wont work unless it has a carbo seal backing plate and seals. also for tunning get a TT chip and a powerlogger with a LC-1 and you will be set. cam go with a 206/206

 

[Donniejr81]

Thanks for the input. When I get closer to buying the chip and tuning equipment, I'll need some mentoring. I can change a PROM chip but thats it. What exactly is a powerlogger with LC-1, scantool, and I've heard KR mentioned. I read lots about them, but have no idea what they are for. If somebody could shed a little light, that would be awesome.

 

[Boost231]

just do a search. there is lots of reading ahead. but for the powerlogger its the best scan tool there is. it hooks up to the ecm and monitors everything u can think of. as far as a LC-1 its a wideband a/f sensor that you hook straight to your powerlogger to log a/f. also KR is knock/detanation

 

[Jerryl]

Thanks for the input. When I get closer to buying the chip and tuning equipment, I'll need some mentoring. I can change a PROM chip but thats it. What exactly is a powerlogger with LC-1, scantool, and I've heard KR mentioned. I read lots about them, but have no idea what they are for. If somebody could shed a little light, that would be awesome.

One of the MOST knowledgeable and respected guys in the TR world put this great website together. Read EVERYTHING on the site, at least once!
Vortex Turbo Buick Performance

Than, go read everything on;
Turbo Regal Web Site (Referred to as “The Holy Grail for Turbo Buicks”)

just do a search. there is lots of reading ahead. but for the powerlogger its the best scan tool there is. it hooks up to the ecm and monitors everything u can think of. as far as a LC-1 its a wideband a/f sensor that you hook straight to your powerlogger to log a/f. also KR is knock/detanation

X2

 

[gsbuick65]

I just did mine and I put a split duration cam in this time, I like it can definately fell the difference. something like 206/214

 

[Donniejr81]

Well I have the engine apart, and am in the cleaning phase. So far I have removed enough gunk from outside AND inside the motor to fill a peanut butter jar. I wonder if the guy who drove this car knew what an oil change was?? I have rebuilt several engines, and this one is by FAR the worst case of internal gunk I've seen. Buuuut, on a happier note the pistons and crank look beautiful, and the cylinders have no ridges whatsoever. The crank and block are all standard size, and everything has checked out to be well within tolerances. I now know I have a good foundation :biggrin:

I am going to pressure clean the block and heads tomorrow with mild solvent, then start my cylinder honing and some light crank polishing. Its gonna be a loooong road.

 

[turbo6x2]

Keep us posted on your progress on your project

 

[Donniejr81]

Will gladly do so. The block looks SO much better now, just have to lay on a few coats of black enamel, then in goes the crank and pistons. I have some before and will soon have some after pics of my progress for ya to check out.

 

[Nick Micale]

Your quest for power is in the heads.

Your best $$$ spent, especially when the engine is apart can be found in increasing airflow into the cylinders. With porting done, you can do the add-on stuff later when the budget allows.

Also, I agree with Brent, leave the stock cam in there - at least for now.

 

[Donniejr81]

The biggest reason I pulled the cam is because a few of the lifters were VERY questionable on the plunger end. I've heard that you cant put new lifters on a used flat tappet cam, and expect them to get a good wear pattern started. Is that truth or myth? The factory cam looks OK for the most part, just those lifters. I'd gladly reuse the factory cam if you all think its safe, and just put in new lifters. That way I can put my $$$ into the heads. What kind of porting are we talking about? A good gasket matching , and smooth the runners and bowls?

 

[Boost231]

if the cam is questionable just get a 206/206. as far as the heads im not sure what you need to do. Nick is a good person to talk to about this. He built my motor so i would listen to everything he says if you want a good running motor.

 

[Jerryl]

The biggest reason I pulled the cam is because a few of the lifters were VERY questionable on the plunger end. I've heard that you cant put new lifters on a used flat tappet cam, and expect them to get a good wear pattern started. Is that truth or myth? The factory cam looks OK for the most part, just those lifters. I'd gladly reuse the factory cam if you all think its safe, and just put in new lifters. That way I can put my $$$ into the heads. What kind of porting are we talking about? A good gasket matching , and smooth the runners and bowls?

"Just" get a new cam, lifters, springs.
For a non-roller set-up you should be able to get everything for around $230 (I think :tongue: )


Here are some "home porting" example pics. Cylinder Head Photo Guide
FWIW, I had mine done professionally and they are still in the box ......... LOL

+2 on Nick!

 

[Donniejr81]

Thanks for the input, I'm getting ready to order my 206/206 cam and valve springs now and the heads will get dropped off at Brangers Performance Machine in Elizabethtown on my way to work. My woman is gonna kill me. :wink: