Raising the BS flag on a body shop, I'm pissed, need opinions

[Buick From Hell]

About 3 weeks ago, my dad took our
'02 Ford F-250
to a local home-improvement place. At the entrance, on either side, is a round concrete post (abutment?), about 2-1/2' in diameter and standing about 3' high. As dad was pulling in, he hit one...

He hit it while turning right. I doubt he was going very fast, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't sliding sideways.


Here is the damage he did. PLEASE look closely at the damage...

Last friday my sister, who looks every bit like the naive female vehicle owner she is ("no, I HAVEN'T checked the blinker fluid lately!"), took the truck to a body shop close by. They called later, and quoted her $2500, and that the amount had already been "ok'd" by the insurance company, and that upon HER go-ahead, they would get the door ordered and could start work on it Monday.

Now, I'm no body shop genius, but since it wasn't that long ago I had my car stripped to bare metal, a front fender replaced, a rear 1/4 panel rebuilt, and painted 2 colors for $5000---I'm thinking $2500 to fix 3 square feet of metal sounds a bit steep...

But please correct me if I'm wrong!


But THAT'S not why I'm pissed...The kicker: The shop called my sister yesterday, and said something to the effect that "Your dad hit that post so hard, that the whole truck body has been pushed away from the frame, and so the body and frame must be re-aligned."

Of course, at more cost. And also of course, it's already been "ok'd" by the insurance company...

Puh-leeze...I would expect this truck could handle a 20 mph t-bone without "pushing the body away from the frame"!
Here's a closeup, you'll notice the bed barely got clipped, so I highly doubt the BED got pushed away from the frame. And look at the cab-to-bed alignment...I don't know about YOU, but it looks pretty on-the-money to ME...

Here's ONE MORE PIC, this is a large pic from a slightly different angle, showing more of the whole side...

I'd LOVE any and all opinions, ESPECIALLY from body-fender guys!

I smell insurance fraud, and I WILL sue these assholes...

 

[mytyphoon1993]

That sounds about right, those dents if thats what you wanna call them are way beyond in, Im sure they can push in the cab back into place, but the door is gonna have to get replaced unlesss you dont want it done the right way. This is just my opinion of working in a body shop for over 10 months.
HTH
David

 

[RobsIron]

If the Adjuster from the Ins. Co. OK'd that repair at that price he should be counseled.
Did he even look at it? If it got approved without him seeing it something fishy.

 

[RobsIron]

Hey BFH, I didn't realize that was a 3rd. door. Still seems a little steep though. Make sure they Replace the door and not ReSkin it.

 

[Buick From Hell]

They ARE replacing the door.

I just want to know if it's possible that the cab could've moved from this type of hit?

 

[myclone]

Originally posted by Buick From Hell
They ARE replacing the door.

I just want to know if it's possible that the cab could've moved from this type of hit?

Former body shop manager/worker for 10yrs here and been around the body shop business in one way or another for ~15yrs...


Without getting into a long winded explanation there is possibly every bit of $2500 worth of damage there IMO. Also, 20mph is very easily capable of moving the cab and/or bed around on the frame and Id also have to say your description of "slightly clipped" the pole is on the optimistic cause the sheet metal in those locations is put togeather/formed to be a substantial structure. If the damage was in the middle of a fender or bed side then its a LOT less work but where that damage is located involves a lot more work for the bodyman. Looks like the cab door post is gonna need a little tugging on a frame machine as the door gaps have opened up slightly too from what I can see.

Dont hit the panic button just yet on the body shop but I would contact the body shop and let them know they should contact the ins co to get an adjuster out there for a reinspect so they can show them the damage that wasnt included in the 1st estimate.

BTW, an "estimate" is just that... There very well, and usually is, more damage discovered once the vehicle is taken apart that wasnt readily noticable upon initial inspection so the price can increase slightly, substantially, or anywhere in between depending on what kind of extra damage is discovered once the work has started.

HTH...

 

[phillyturbosix]

I too have worked in a body shop and have a good friend with one. That price sounds about right for a new door and to fix and blend in some paint for that job. As far as the frame moving and body shifting... it's a Ford so anything is possible! I owned a Bronco that got sideswiped by a girl going 10mph and 2 body bushings sheared off. Go Ford! If it was a chev then the body might have not moved Good Luck

 

[John Larkin]

What you've got to consider is the hourly rate they are charging. I bet it's $65 or so. If that door is $500 and I wouldn't be surprised if it is, then you have $2000 of labor and paint time or about 30 hours. I would break it down like this:

rfdoor = 2.0 + paint time (3.0?)
rrdoor = 3.0 R&R + paint + jamb (4.2?)
rr cab corner = 7.0 + paint (2.5?)
r bedside = 2.0 R&I + 4.0 repair + paint (4.0?)

I don't have a crash book here but I bet I'm close. That cab corner has a nasty fold on the edge of the pillar. That may necessitate tying the body to a machine to hold it in place while they pull that out. Body shop always go for "supplementals". Just be happy that they don't make you wait for the guy to come back out. However, at $65/hour it better look new or then you can do what you must. Sometimes conceding gives you more leverage than arguing: "Your Honor, I agreed to their terms and the work is unsatisfactory."

 

[myclone]

Originally posted by John Larkin
What you've got to consider is the hourly rate they are charging. I bet it's $65 or so. If that door is $500 and I wouldn't be surprised if it is, then you have $2000 of labor and paint time or about 30 hours. I would break it down like this:

rfdoor = 2.0 + paint time (3.0?)
rrdoor = 3.0 R&R + paint + jamb (4.2?)
rr cab corner = 7.0 + paint (2.5?)
r bedside = 2.0 R&I + 4.0 repair + paint (4.0?)

I don't have a crash book here but I bet I'm close. That cab corner has a nasty fold on the edge of the pillar. That may necessitate tying the body to a machine to hold it in place while they pull that out. Body shop always go for "supplementals". Just be happy that they don't make you wait for the guy to come back out. However, at $65/hour it better look new or then you can do what you must. Sometimes conceding gives you more leverage than arguing: "Your Honor, I agreed to their terms and the work is unsatisfactory."

The only thing I could add to the above other than I agree with it is that my money is on the door being more than $500. I havent priced stuff for quite a few years so I may be wrong too

 

[Gn-ing]

Originally posted by Buick From Hell
About 3 weeks ago, my dad took our
'02 Ford F-250
to a local home-improvement place. At the entrance, on either side, is a round concrete post (abutment?), about 2-1/2' in diameter and standing about 3' high. As dad was pulling in, he hit one...

He hit it while turning right. I doubt he was going very fast, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't sliding sideways.


Here is the damage he did. PLEASE look closely at the damage...

Last friday my sister, who looks every bit like the naive female vehicle owner she is ("no, I HAVEN'T checked the blinker fluid lately!"), took the truck to a body shop close by. They called later, and quoted her $2500, and that the amount had already been "ok'd" by the insurance company, and that upon HER go-ahead, they would get the door ordered and could start work on it Monday.

Now, I'm no body shop genius, but since it wasn't that long ago I had my car stripped to bare metal, a front fender replaced, a rear 1/4 panel rebuilt, and painted 2 colors for $5000---I'm thinking $2500 to fix 3 square feet of metal sounds a bit steep...

But please correct me if I'm wrong!


But THAT'S not why I'm pissed...The kicker: The shop called my sister yesterday, and said something to the effect that "Your dad hit that post so hard, that the whole truck body has been pushed away from the frame, and so the body and frame must be re-aligned."

Of course, at more cost. And also of course, it's already been "ok'd" by the insurance company...

Puh-leeze...I would expect this truck could handle a 20 mph t-bone without "pushing the body away from the frame"!
Here's a closeup, you'll notice the bed barely got clipped, so I highly doubt the BED got pushed away from the frame. And look at the cab-to-bed alignment...I don't know about YOU, but it looks pretty on-the-money to ME...

Here's ONE MORE PIC, this is a large pic from a slightly different angle, showing more of the whole side...

I'd LOVE any and all opinions, ESPECIALLY from body-fender guys!

I smell insurance fraud, and I WILL sue these assholes...

I'm in the car sales business,and we get body repairs daily,the 2500 sounds completely reasonable.. Most body shops charge 60-85 dollars a hour. and i'm sure they are charging retail for the door,plus it has to be cut in and assembled,i'd say atleast 3 hours for that..then there is other straightening and paint blend time.
What kind of shop did your other work? was it a small uncertified shop,or a state of the art shop? that can make a huge difference in pricing.. I've seen "hammer and nail" shops work for 15 bucks a hour...

 

[Blue87T]

Most insurance Departments require that you be provided with an original estimate within a set amount of days. Could you post the description up and that may help to address the $$$ . As an appraiser I would say $2500 could be correct. I dont see the cab/bed being knocked out of alignment. YOu would be better off looking at the opposite side of the truck for the gaps to be sure . If the bed shifted in relation to the cab or cab from bed , then you would have the bed sticking out from the other side. If they are saying the frame is bent then I would be suspicious.

I would also call your appraiser and ask what the supplement (additional ) repairs are for. He/she is the one who ultimately authorized them .

I write you a quick estimate on Sunday when I am next in work if you want to help put your mind at rest about the initial amount.

 

[DCVING 6]

Originally posted by Buick From Hell

Now, I'm no body shop genius, but since it wasn't that long ago I had my car stripped to bare metal, a front fender replaced, a rear 1/4 panel rebuilt, and painted 2 colors for $5000

I've been around the body shop business for a while too. $2500 seems like a very fair price to fix that. The way the the insurance adjusters are too, trust me, if it wasn't a $2500 hit, theres no way they would pay that much.

Pertaining to the quote above, that is why my shop chooses not to do complete cars. When you do a complete, you make less money than you would fixing a few "soccer mom parking lot accidents"

Ask your sister? for a copy of the estimate. Scan it and email it to a few of us, we can translate it for you.
DCVING6@aol.com

 

[Buick From Hell]

First, thanks for the responses!!

The body shop in question is a reputable shop, they do very good work and they've been around a long time---they fixed my buick fenderbender in '85, and they've also done work on my sisters car! So their credentials were never in question...

I agree that $2500 isnt 'out of the ballpark' either, but I'm betting that had we offered to pay cash, it would've been a bit cheaper...I'm thinking that they're charging the high-end of the scale simply because an insurance company is footing the bill. Doctors & dentists do the same thing all the time...

And even if the body HAS moved, based on my visual observation of the entire truck, AND from what anyone can see in the pictures--could it possibly have moved enough to even be beyond factory tolerances? I see several trucks every day with "body lifts". I doubt any "critical" alignment was ever done to ANY of 'em....

Regardless, I have some very good "before" pictures, and if the "after" pictures don't reveal some changes of the bed/cab relationship, they're gonna hear about it....

 

[Blue87T]

Maybe they are just " setting back " the bed. To do that job correctly and for the best painting results , you would need to remove the bed or atleast move it back some. Otherwise you would end up with a rough edge where the clear would stop on the front panel of the bed and rear cab. It would also be necessary for the repair or replacement of the cab corner panel.

You would be hard pressed to find a body shop to agree an insurance company would be " overpaying " them. Body shops where I live , PA , dont get $65-$85/hr as indicated above. Insurance companies pay them $38-$44/hr which is nothing compared to what a mechanical shop gets ( $65-$90/hr ) . Even Monroe mufflers charges $72. Body shops are getting ripped off by the insurance companies as far as labor rate goes. The Insurance company dictates and dictates their market value for repairs. It is unfortunate that alot of insurance companies abuse shops like that. Its funny when I speak with other adjusters I work with who have never touched a car rag on a shop for what they " ask " for . If its not included in the particular labor operation , then I try to be fair and pay for it.

 

[zam70]

Hey BFH - Here's my general take on the repair (and this is what I do for a living).

R&I front door items (mirror, handle mldg etc)
set back the bed
R&I back glass
R&R bed side cap (they always break)
R&I R Tail light
R&I Rear bumper
R&R bed side decal (have one?)
R&R R Rear door + paint (I believe they are around $450.00)
Repair RF door + paint (1.0)
repair R cab corner (3) + paint
repair bedside (2-3) + paint
possible rocker damage?

R&I = remove install
R&R = remove replace

2-4 day turn around on the repair

2500 + is an honest figure on this one.
It's very possible the cab shifted...it is rubber mounted just like ours.
Weight did the damage, not speed...the vehicle collided because it was turned to tight around the pole...in turn, leverage was applied and ALOT of pressure was put on the pole/truck impact point (the truck was being pushed sideways on it's tires...that's alot of pressure)

Sounds to me like the shop is looking out for YOU...why are you challenging them?
If you don't trust the shop, change shops...if you trust them, let them do their job.