r12 or 134?

[WVhillbilly]

i have a 87 gn that i just purchased and the ac compressor is bad, there is no freon in it and i bought a new compressor from autozone. can i use 134 with this system after i change the dryer and orafice or do i need to get r12?

 

[jpwalt1987]

First off, take the compressor back to autozone and get your money back. Autozone sells $h!t. What is wrong with old compressor ? Did it lock up? Did it send metal into the condenser? Is it not pumping properly? To do the job correctly and to get a warranty on your parts most auto parts places require you to buy a new drier, orifice tube, and at minimum some A/C flush for the lines. Have you pulled the orifice tube out yet? That usually tells the tale of what happened. If you have black rubbery looking stuff on it then your lines are shot. Flushing the condenser is a crap shoot on a 25 year old vehicle. It also depends on how much and what type of debris is in it. So you should budget replacing it too. R-12? Good luck finding it. And when you do it will make you cry at the price. That stuff is high when it can b found. You can do the R-134a retrofit. It will require a different oil than r12. Do you have A/C system repair experience? If not I suggest you take it to a pro. Not to rain on your parade but it's not usually as easy as just changing a compressor. Most remanufactored compressors have a one year warranty and usually don't last or are bad right from the start. New is the only way to go. Hope this helps. Just trying to save you some aggravation.

 

[WVhillbilly]

The compressor is new made by 4 seasons, haven't taken the system apart yet, was just trying to get an idea on whether or not i can swap it to 134. I read that r12 systems take mineral oil and 134 takes pag and didn't know if it would hurt the seals or not, i plan on doing it right pulling vacuum, adding oil, changing whatever needs changing but don't want to do all that stuff and have the pag oil eat the seals up, thanks for the quick response this site is awesome!

 

[WVhillbilly]

Forgot to mention the old compressor bearing is making a noise like its going out, that's why i got a new one

 

[williamsGN]

Look up your model number online for compatibility with the 134, The Everco/Four Seasons from AZ say R12 and are remans, while the Compressor Works is new and takes both.
All of them only come with a 3 month warranty. Make sure to change out all the o rings for those that work with the 134.

Its been 4 years but I had a conversion done with new dryer, compressor, orifice, freon and labor - $750 w/ 12 mo. warranty.

 

[WVhillbilly]

ok thanks ill look it up, where would i find the o-rings? meaning the new ones for the 134 freon?

 

[Nick Micale]

The compressor is new made by 4 seasons, haven't taken the system apart yet, was just trying to get an idea on whether or not i can swap it to 134..................

The 4 Seasons compressor is excellent, as I have used few of them on Gn's. It is the only new compressor being made in the USA, and it comes with a 2 year warranty.

There are a couple of issues you should know about when converting a GN to 134a.

First, cooling ability is reduced 20%, but that may not be an issue unless temps get over 100 deg.

Second, 134a will probably leak unless you have new type hoses that have a barrier liner.

Also, be careful with the replacement dryer, as the made in China ones I have used all leak at the hose fitting connections.

We have no issues locating R-12 in our area, let me know help finding it if you plan to go that route.

 

[turbofrank]

My ac was converted last week to 134a new compressor,evap,orifice, high pressure switch and o-rings installed. System flushed and charged by professional. Parts $332 labor 325 and it blows ice cold.

 

[WVhillbilly]

might try to stick with the r12 if it will be the least costly as far as replacing hoses and such. i guess ill know more about it when i tear it apart, the car only has 35k on it i was hoping to change minimal parts to get cold air but its not looking like thats gonna happen. thanks for the offer nick , might have to take you up on it theres a napa here that i think stocked up on it, gonna try them if i stick with r12.

 

[charlief1]

The 4 Seasons compressor is excellent, as I have used few of them on Gn's. It is the only new compressor being made in the USA, and it comes with a 2 year warranty.

There are a couple of issues you should know about when converting a GN to 134a.

First, cooling ability is reduced 20%, but that may not be an issue unless temps get over 100 deg.

Second, 134a will probably leak unless you have new type hoses that have a barrier liner.

Also, be careful with the replacement dryer, as the made in China ones I have used all leak at the hose fitting connections.

Nick is right on here. R-134 has some issues to say the least and going to gone in the next few years. If you can get R-12 use it instead because it works much better. Do a search about A/C and you'll find a bunch of threads about issues you may encounter converting. If you got all the parts (orifice tube, accumulator, and compressor) from AZ then you've got a 2 year warranty. If you got the parts from different places then you've got a 3 month warrenty.

 

[WVhillbilly]

Well that's enough to tip the scale for me! Im gonna try to go the r12 route, the only thing I found so far in the o ring department is a set of green ones. Will that work with r12 or should i roll the dice and use the old ones? ........ i really want to thank everyone for the help, i love this place

 

[novaderrik]

propane.. google it...

 

[charlief1]

Well that's enough to tip the scale for me! Im gonna try to go the r12 route, the only thing I found so far in the o ring department is a set of green ones. Will that work with r12 or should i roll the dice and use the old ones? ........ i really want to thank everyone for the help, i love this place

The green seals will work better than the stock ones did. R-12 is a physically larger molocule than R-134 so it doesn't leak as much.

 

[WVhillbilly]

ok thanks charlie i appreciate it

 

[turbodave231]

The recommendation of an AC professional is a good one for the average backyard technician. However, here are some of the facts about R-12 to R-134a on GM cars and trucks:

Your system will operate just fine on R-134a and you do NOT need to flush the system unless there is metal or debris on the orifice tube. In fact GM does not recommend flushes unless you use R-134a as the flush agent. ( Requires special equipment).

1. It is not absolutely necessary, but a good idea to replace the accumulator. This component contains a desiccant (dryer) bag and is intended to remove moisture.
1.5 Install retrofit fittings
2. Install a full charge of PAG oil (8 oz I think, but you best check)
3. Add 1/4 oz of fluorescent leak detection dye
4. Evacuate the system (pull a deep vacuum) at least 28"hg and keep going for 30 minutes or more.
4.5 Let the system sit in a vacuum for another 30 minutes or so to see if it leaks.
5. Charge the system with R-134a. Charge with 90% of the recommended R-12 charge weight.

The system will loose a little bit of efficiency, and it will run slightly higher pressures, but it will cool OK going down the road. The only time you may notice the difference is during stop and go traffic. The R-134a molecule is smaller than the R-12 and it will leak out quicker, but it is easy and cheap to top it off once a year if and when the system looses a bit of refrigerant.

 

[mgmshar]

Thought this was a pretty good summary of doing A/C retrofits. Interesting that the OEMs say that mineral oil flushing is not needed, but those who actually make the reman compressors say you should...

http://www.e38.org/pparish/gen-rp.htm

Mike
Sent from my HTC Droid Incredible using Turbo Buick

 

[turbodave231]

Mike,

That site gives good information. I will add it to my bookmarks

The compressor manufacturers are playing CYA! But, Can you blame them?

Flushing with anything other than refrigerant is problematic. How are you going to get all of that solvent out of the system? The answer is: You're not going to get it all out.
What effect does the "leftover" solvent have on oil dilution and the system seals? I have seen the results on warranty returned compressors (Delphi) and it isn't good. Flushing solvents present bigger problems than the stagnant inert mineral oil left from the R-12.

If it were mine, I would not flush.

 

[WVhillbilly]

thanks dave and mike, i hope i dont have to flush the system! dont know if it just leaked out or what but my cousin owned the car since 08 or so and it didnt cool when he bought it , however the bearing is starting to go out and i cant stand driving without ac so i purchased a new compressor and was gonna try to rebuild the original later to use as a backup in case the 4 seasons didnt last. just for the heck of it i shot a small can of 134 in it last week without changing anything out yet and the compressor started to smoke so i drained it back out and unplugged the compressor. i havent priced the lines yet but if it comes down to flushing them ill probably bite the bullet and buy new lines and evaporater. if i can get some r12 from the napa store here without spending a fortune im gonna go that way,if its high then 134 here we come.

 

[WVhillbilly]

if the r12 is high im gonna follow your directions dave , seems like the simple easy way to go. i wouldnt mind having to shoot a little 134 in every spring being that its cheap and plentiful

 

[Chuck Leeper]

A common leak is at the joints, where the hoses crimp onto the hard lines.....Depending on how many times the engine has been out, they may need to be replaced...