Please Help! Block Cracked

[turbotony1]

I just received my stage motor from the machine shop a few days ago. The engine belonged to one of the guys at the shop who owned it for 10-15 years and ran it for a few years too. He completely rebuilt/freshened it up to sell it and it sat there for about 3 more years until I bought it 2 weeks ago. I spent hours on the phone with this guy and knew every little detail about it before I bought it! Numerous time he told me it was ready to be bolted in and beat on! He never once said that anything was ever bent or cracked, even when I asked. He even sent me 20+ pictures.

When it got to my house I checked to make sure everything was in the crate that he promised. Everything was there! Neatly wrapped and freshly painted! I couldn't have been happier.

The first thing I wanted to do was strip the fresh (and heavily applied) grey paint off the block and paint it black. Probably not what the original owner wanted me to do. Not more than 10 minutes later I came by an area that felt very soft under the metal scrapper I was using. As it turns out, it ended up being a 10 inch long crack (I assume) that was driller every 1/4 inch down the entire length of the crack, and then filled with what seems to be some kind of epoxy or JB weld.

I called Pay Pal on Saturday and notified them of what happened. I don't know what they are going to be able to do but I will try. I'm also taking pictures of the repair work. I'm going to e-mail them to the piece of **** that I bought it from after I talk to him on the phone tomorrow (Monday). He owes me a block.... and then some!!!

I'm unbelievably angry. I haven't slept in 2 days !!!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this block now considerably weaker than it was before it cracked?

Thanks for any responses,
Anthony

 

[turbotony1]

Here are some pictures.

 

[magee]

I hope it works out for you, i feel for ya.

 

[turbotony1]

Here are some pictures.

 

[turbotony1]

Why would it crack where it did? Has anyone seen one of these blocks crack in this area?

Maybe just a bad tune or too much boost?

I wonder if it froze? Are there water passages behind the crack line?

Thanks,
Anthony

 

[turbofabricator]

That is a common place to crack. Give it back to him and get your money back

 

[turbotony1]

That is a common place to crack. Give it back to him and get your money back

The machine shop/guy I bought it from is a VERY REPUTABLE, WELL KNOWN BUICK V6 SHOP! They are listed as a preferred vendor and TB supporter on this site. So if all goes well from here on out, I wont drop their name.

I want to avoid giving it back. I got a great deal on it (now I know why). It looks like it really was freshened up. There are lots of good parts in it. JE Pistons, Carillo Rods, Billet Callies Crank. Heavily ported M&A Heads (later production castings) with bigger valves. T&D roller rockers and big solid lifter cam. Brand new water pump, oil pump rebuilt. Ported, epoxied and matched intake, Precision Plenum and 70 mm Accufab TB. 83lb injectors, custom stainless headers and crossover with Tial wastegate...

I'll keep it if he can get me a good Stage II block and some sort of compensation for the extra machining.

 

[daves87gn]

That is a common place to crack. Give it back to him and get your money back

X2

the crack shouldnt hurt performance, there are block that had worse damage out there that been professionally repaired and running.

that sucks that they didnt inform your of the repair

 

[turboc87gn]

That can be welded you just gotta get someone that knows how to weld cast iron....

 

[Pittsburghkid]

Maybe it's the lighting or somthing on the block but it also looks like the crack runs down under the side of the block. Is this part also cracked?

 

[turbotony1]

No. The crack gets close to running off, but it actually ends just before going under. (pretty bad lighting)

 

[Chuck Leeper]

It may also be a repair that can be made w/ Irontite plugs. Time consuming, but avoids welding heat. I have seen MANY old Cummins and Detroits running around w/ this repair.
Here's how it's done....
http://www.irontite.com/PDF/crack-detect_manual.pdf

 

[turbotony1]

That can be welded you just gotta get someone that knows how to weld cast iron....

Interesting. I thought you could only weld aluminum blocks and restore them to their originals strength. I always thought that a welded cast iron block will never be as strong.

I'm concerned with the strength and longevity of the block because I want to make BIG H.P. numbers. Thats why I bought a Stage motor instead of rebuilding my 109.

 

[turbotony1]

I would like to know if this motor is on-center or off-center.
I thought it was off-center because he was running the stock intake on it, but after removing the intake it looks like the bolt holes in the manifold were opened up quite a bit, maybe 3/8" bigger than stock. It looks like the intake was moved forward and all the intake runners were heavily welded and altered.

I would also like to know if the crank looks like a billet crank or not. It's supposed to be a Callies. I'm going to call them later today with the numbers that are on in.

 

[tsm3089]

pretty sure the 012 block was offered ar a 3.8 stage I As well as a 3.8 stage II Both off center.

 

[turboclam]

Is this the block that's been on Ebay for several months, built by Hye-Tech Performance? I don't think stock intakes would bolt right up to M&A heads so that's probably why the holes on the intake look opened up. It looked like a pretty good deal (without the crack). Did you also get the DP and turbo?

 

[turbotony1]

It may also be a repair that can be made w/ Irontite plugs. Time consuming, but avoids welding heat. I have seen MANY old Cummins and Detroits running around w/ this repair.
Here's how it's done....
http://www.irontite.com/PDF/crack-detect_manual.pdf

Thanks for the response. That technique looks very similar to the way the repair was performed on my block. I wonder if thats how they did it.

Either way, I wanted a Stage II motor for the assurance, knowing that I will have a great foundation for big power. The last thing I wanted was an engine that I'm constantly going to worry about. I may be wrong, but I think I'll need a different "clean" block to provide the insurance that I want.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that a bad tune is going to wipe out any engine, but I want what I paid for.

 

[Ed Valvo]

I'm with Clam. Looks like the ebay motor. If so, I inquired about it a while back and seller said it was at Hye-Tech.

I've heard of Stage 2 blocks cracking. IF fixed properly, it should work. But how would you know for sure? How fast are you trying to go? If the seller did not warn you about the crack, that is messed up.

 

[Reggie West]

Whether or not its a stage 1 or 2 block does not matter. If it cracked along the freeze plugs it will do it again.

If you want a reliable block that will make power, go buy a TA block. If you can get your money back I would go that route instead. Get a reputable shop to build a motor for you and you will be money ahead.

I can tell you from personal experience you will end up rebuilding AND repairing that motor twice and it wont be cheap.

Look around in the Stage 2 section of this board. Make some calls to knowledgeable builders and make your own decision.

Good luck.

 

[750H.P.V6]

This is why I tell people not to buy 3.8 liter Stage blocks. I've been thru this before. Unfortunately you got screwed and I hope you get your money back. If you were to continue to run it like this it will likely crack again and then it will crack in horizontally 1/2" below the deck surface in the # 2 and 3 cylinders. Ask me how I know.

Neal