Oiling/Priming question

[angryyouth]

Does anyone have an answer to why my engine is not seeing oil on 1-3-5 rockers and pushrods? This is the first Buick motor I have built and it is absolutely fighting me to the very end.

A little backstory on the motor..... it is a purpose built 4.1 steel block with girdle, dry sump, forged crank, rods and pistons with a blower and stacked intercooler. the heads are TA with the T&d rockers

When I spin the drysump with a drill motor I am getting 25psi which is not great but the drill motor is not the fastest. All air is bled and I am seeing oil drip on 2-4-6 rockers however nothing on 1-3-5.

I understand that oil enters the block hits the 2-4-6 artery and Y's to the main line oiling.... what is causing the lack of oil to the opposing side. the motor was built by a very reputable race engine builder with Buick experience. Is it possible the Cam bearings where installed incorrectly? any other thoughts... Please help thanks.

 

[charlief1]

Sounds like the front cam bearing is installed wrong or you have an internal leak some where. Just my .02.

 

[Nasty Wendy]

A misalignment of the front cam bearing would cause this in a production block or even a stage block that has had a hole drilled from the front cam hole into the passenger side lifter feed. The stage blocks relied on splash oiling to get oil to the passenger side lifters but your machine shop could have done several different things to get pressurized oiling there. Your best bet is to contact your machine shop and talk to them about how they provided pressurized oiling to the passenger side lifter oil galley. Maybe they didn't and thats why you don't have any.

 

[angryyouth]

The cam bearing being misaligned is what a friend of mine had thought as well..... I am really hoping this is not the case.
Could you describe the splash oiling a little better. Was oil provided to 1-3-5 via oil from the valley? If my engine builder did miss providing or oiling to this side.. in theory would there have to be oil pressure "in" lines to both sides of the block?
Thanks for the help......

 

[LOT]

info

Pressurized oil comes from the pump through the block up to the # 1 cam bearing @ around the 8 o-clock position. If cam bearing is installed correctly there will be a hole @ 8 c-clock and 2 o-clock. Later block (but not the 4.1) has a groove behind the cam bearing that goes from the 8 o-clock position down and around to around the 2 o-clock position. Oil feeds @ the 8 o-clock position and lubes the front cam journal. Most cams have a groove in front journal to carry oil around to 2 o-clock position where it enters drivers side oil galley to feed # 1-3-5 lifters. (#1-3-5 lifter and pushrod DO GET oil from splash) Where the lifters meet cam lobe is lubed by splash but not the oil you are missing. I would bet that since you have a 4.1 block (no groove to supply oil to drivers side) that you also have a cast roller cam or whatever cam that has no groove in front cam journal. So you have no provision for 1-3-5 oiling. The easiest fix it to go to back of block --remove the 2 oil galley plugs--using 90 degree fittings (be carefull of flexplate clearing fittings) and a 1 ft. piece of premade brake line (double flare)-- point fittings down --hand bend the tubing into a 180 degree loop--tie the two 90 degree together and you will now be feeding the drivers side with oil. I use 3/16 tubing as it easier to bend by hand and more than enough oil supply. Best of luck.--Lee

 

[seabeenugent]

Try turning the crank a few times when priming the pump. It worked for me!

 

[Nasty Wendy]

After re-reading what I typed I guess I need to clarify something. Stage2 blocks relied on splash oiling for all the lifters, not just the passenger side. Your machine shop would have had to tie in the passenger side and driver's side oil galleys and drilled through the lifter bores into those galleys and then tapped and plugged the holes in the bores to the lifter valley to stop the oil from hemoraging into the valley. This is common practice for running hydraulic lifters in a stage 2. The hydraulic lifters would pump oil up the pushrods to provide oiling to the rockers. If your engine isn't getting oil on just the passenger side then either the oil galleys haven't been tied in and the front cam hole could be suspect. Oil pressure can be provided to the passenger side galley via the front cam hole by either A) using a cam bearing that has a hole drilled to provide oil to the passenger side galley. That hole HAS to be lined up properly or else it won't work and the first cam journal also has to be grooved. B) There can be a groove cut into the seat where the cam bearing fits that connects the pressurized oil supply to the passenger side galley. C) There are cam bearing available that have a grooved back side that would allow oil to travel from the pressurized supply to the hole supplying the passenger side galley. OR your machinist did't use the front cam hole at all and chose to do it by D) The passenger side galley can be plumbed into the driver's side galley at the front or back of the block.

If you aren't running a Stage2 block then disregaurd what I've said.

 

[LOT]

block

After re-reading what I typed I guess I need to clarify something. Stage2 blocks relied on splash oiling for all the lifters, not just the passenger side. Your machine shop would have had to tie in the passenger side and driver's side oil galleys and drilled through the lifter bores into those galleys and then tapped and plugged the holes in the bores to the lifter valley to stop the oil from hemoraging into the valley. This is common practice for running hydraulic lifters in a stage 2. The hydraulic lifters would pump oil up the pushrods to provide oiling to the rockers. If your engine isn't getting oil on just the passenger side then either the oil galleys haven't been tied in and the front cam hole could be suspect. Oil pressure can be provided to the passenger side galley via the front cam hole by either A) using a cam bearing that has a hole drilled to provide oil to the passenger side galley. That hole HAS to be lined up properly or else it won't work and the first cam journal also has to be grooved. B) There can be a groove cut into the seat where the cam bearing fits that connects the pressurized oil supply to the passenger side galley. C) There are cam bearing available that have a grooved back side that would allow oil to travel from the pressurized supply to the hole supplying the passenger side galley. OR your machinist did't use the front cam hole at all and chose to do it by D) The passenger side galley can be plumbed into the driver's side galley at the front or back of the block.

If you aren't running a Stage2 block then disregaurd what I've said.

He says it has a girdle so I assumed it is a production block.
If so, that is a huge build for a 4.1 production block.
Doesn't matter, oiling is almost identical--even with the dry sump. I assume he is bringing oil in @ the port for the oil sending unit.

 

[angryyouth]

Lee,
I think you are right on the money..... The cam is a forged full roller and it does not as I recall have the groove for providing oil in that front journal. I think the best bet as you said is to tie into the rear plugs and bridge those to galleries. I am oiling of a modified front cover that sends oil right into the front 2-4-6 oil line. So with your theory I think bridging that to the 1-3-5 in the rear should clear up the issue.
Thanks again for the input.

 

[angryyouth]

I also agree with you on the use of a production block being pretty over eager. I definitely think it is the weak link in this set up. Unfortunately it is what we had when we started and now I feel we are committed and unable to change it at this point. I did block fill it about half way so at least when she does grenade there will be a little less water everywhere.

 

[Nasty Wendy]

I also agree with you on the use of a production block being pretty over eager. I definitely think it is the weak link in this set up. Unfortunately it is what we had when we started and now I feel we are committed and unable to change it at this point. I did block fill it about half way so at least when she does grenade there will be a little less water everywhere.

And there is another bonus of doing a half fill. Never thought about that one. LOL.:biggrin: