Oil ingestion problem..

[kwiktsi]

Just recently bought this car and, unfortunately, the previous "hands" in it had no right being there. Been nothing but un-screwing what they screwed up the past couple of weeks.

Anyway, it's been smoking intermittently. Sometimes barely any at all, other times, it just billows out the exhaust. Seems worse after idling a while. The intake was covered in oil when I pulled the dog house, and when I wenter to check the bolt torque, it was extremely loose. Assuming that was my problem, I put a new intake gasket in, cleaned everything up and reassembled it leaving the pcv disconnected (has breathers in the ds valve cover). After driving it a bit, it seemed ok until I let it idle a while and it started smoking out of the exhaust again. I was hoping it was turbo seals but not looking that way. I pulled the dog house again last night and the lower intake is nearly dripping with oil again. Dog house, throttle body, upper pipe, etc. are all dry.

Im thinking it is either intake valve seals/guides or possibly intake gasket not sealing properly. I know the heads are ported from a visual i spection, but know nothing about them. Is it possible for them to be milled too much, causing sealing issues? I assumed if it was an intake sealing issue, it would be leaking coolant internally also? The car also has a decent amount of blowby (steady even smoke out of the breather with the pcv disconnected, not puffs like I've seen with one or two damaged pistons). Is it possible for it to even get past the rings and up into the intake or am I definitely looking at a top end issue?

Sorry this got so long, trying to be as descriptive as I can. Thanks.
Joe

 

[haywire4130]

Couple questions first: are you running a mass air sensor and is the pass valve cover breather still connected to the turbo inlet or is there a breather (front of pass valve cover) on there too? I would hook the pcv back up, if youre running mass air the chip is calibrated for the "metered air leak" from the pcv and wont idle correctly with it disconnected.

 

[kwiktsi]

No mass air, holley hp. I was running the pcv prior to tear down but with all the oil in the intake, I blocked it off when I reassembled it just to rule it out of the problem still existed, which it does. Nothing is breathing into the intake tract. The issue is coming from somewhere below the intake, just need to find out where and was hoping others have experienced similar.

 

[gunzandgearz]

First thing I would do is hook a vacuum guage up and check manifold vacuum to see if its low, next thing I always do is a compression test and lastly a leakdown test. if your compression test reads low, squirt some oil down the hole and run it again, if it gets better its in the rings. need to make sure short block is solid, then work from there.

 

[626gn]

Have you tried pulling the downpipe to check the hot side of turbo? It's possible not to see oil on the cold side but have an intermittent leak on the hot side that starts to smoke only after engine is up to temp.

 

[626gn]

Have you tried pulling the downpipe to check the hot side of turbo? It's possible not to see oil on the cold side but have an intermittent leak on the hot side that starts to smoke only after engine is up to temp.

Even if you don't readily see oil when you pull the downpipe shine a light in the turbine and see if you have any oil in there. I once had a really tiny oil leak in the turbo that did not make it to the downpipe but started blowing smoke after idling for a while. It doesn't take much oil to cause smoke.

 

[gunzandgearz]

Even if you don't readily see oil when you pull the downpipe shine a light in the turbine and see if you have any oil in there. I once had a really tiny oil leak in the turbo that did not make it to the downpipe but started blowing smoke after idling for a while. It doesn't take much oil to cause smoke.

He also has oil in upper end.

 

[kwiktsi]

He also has oil in upper end.

It is not coming from the turbo, it is coming from the motor. Checked the turbo first prior to noticing the oil in the intake. After cleaning the intake, replacing the gasket and bypassing the pcv for testing purposes, the intake is coated with oil again within about 20 miles. The dog house is clean, the piping is clean and the top of the rjc plate is clean. The bottom of the plate is wet, the lower intake is all wet inside and the dog house gasket under the plate it wet from wicking in oil but everything above it is dry.

As for vacuum, it's seeing about 15" at idle (with pcv plugged off). As much as I'd like to think it's leaking through the intake gaskets, I'm really thinking that's not the case with the vacuum it makes. I'm going to bolt the dog house back on, pull the intake rockers and do a leak down on the intake. If that's good, from there I'll leak down test the cylinders. Compression was all about 160-165 when I checked it a couple of weeks ago. It's an 89 turbo ta with gn pistons, was told it is "around 9 to 9.5:1". Just doing rough math with online calculators puts it closer to the 9.5 mark based on cranking compression, not acounting for cam and such.

 

[gunzandgearz]

It is not coming from the turbo, it is coming from the motor. Checked the turbo first prior to noticing the oil in the intake. After cleaning the intake, replacing the gasket and bypassing the pcv for testing purposes, the intake is coated with oil again within about 20 miles. The dog house is clean, the piping is clean and the top of the rjc plate is clean. The bottom of the plate is wet, the lower intake is all wet inside and the dog house gasket under the plate it wet from wicking in oil but everything above it is dry.

As for vacuum, it's seeing about 15" at idle (with pcv plugged off). As much as I'd like to think it's leaking through the intake gaskets, I'm really thinking that's not the case with the vacuum it makes. I'm going to bolt the dog house back on, pull the intake rockers and do a leak down on the intake. If that's good, from there I'll leak down test the cylinders. Compression was all about 160-165 when I checked it a couple of weeks ago. It's an 89 turbo ta with gn pistons, was told it is "around 9 to 9.5:1". Just doing rough math with online calculators puts it closer to the 9.5 mark based on cranking compression, not acounting for cam and such.

Looks like you are on the right track, im with you though I don't think its the manifold either with the vacuum that high, report back with findings.

 

[bison]

Pressure test the intake manifold with the rockers removed


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[kwiktsi]

Pressure test the intake manifold with the rockers removed


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hoping to do that tomorrow. I'll keep you posted.

 

[kwiktsi]

Silly question, I know the heads on this are ported. When you port these heads, does it typically cut into the rocker bolt hole? Wondering if that may be an (the?) issue.

 

[kwiktsi]

Well, think I found the problem. Pretty sure my intake guides are wiped. I can grab the valve by the retainer with the spring on it and rock it back and forth enough to see and feel physical movement. I've never purposely tried to rock a good valve before, so I don't know what's normal, but this can't be right knowing what the stem to guide clearance typically is, especially with the spring on it still.

 

[gsgnnut]

Just recently bought this car and, unfortunately, the previous "hands" in it had no right being there. Been nothing but un-screwing what they screwed up the past couple of weeks.

Anyway, it's been smoking intermittently. Sometimes barely any at all, other times, it just billows out the exhaust. Seems worse after idling a while. The intake was covered in oil when I pulled the dog house, and when I wenter to check the bolt torque, it was extremely loose. Assuming that was my problem, I put a new intake gasket in, cleaned everything up and reassembled it leaving the pcv disconnected (has breathers in the ds valve cover). After driving it a bit, it seemed ok until I let it idle a while and it started smoking out of the exhaust again. I was hoping it was turbo seals but not looking that way. I pulled the dog house again last night and the lower intake is nearly dripping with oil again. Dog house, throttle body, upper pipe, etc. are all dry.

Im thinking it is either intake valve seals/guides or possibly intake gasket not sealing properly. I know the heads are ported from a visual i spection, but know nothing about them. Is it possible for them to be milled too much, causing sealing issues? I assumed if it was an intake sealing issue, it would be leaking coolant internally also? The car also has a decent amount of blowby (steady even smoke out of the breather with the pcv disconnected, not puffs like I've seen with one or two damaged pistons). Is it possible for it to even get past the rings and up into the intake or am I definitely looking at a top end issue?

Sorry this got so long, trying to be as descriptive as I can. Thanks.
Joe

Easy . test drive on highway and watch out rearview mirror. Drop hammer and if smoke increases under accelleration its rings. Let off gas completely at 75mph or so. If smoke increases its valve guides or seals or both. Puffing out breather at idle is "breathing heavy" and is a sign of tired rings and valves or simply time for rebuild.

 

[kwiktsi]

Easy . test drive on highway and watch out rearview mirror. Drop hammer and if smoke increases under accelleration its rings. Let off gas completely at 75mph or so. If smoke increases its valve guides or seals or both. Puffing out breather at idle is "breathing heavy" and is a sign of tired rings and valves or simply time for rebuild.

Well, definitely time for a rebuild.. Intake guides are $#@&ed and leakdown on the pass side was 70%, 30%, 38%. Didn't even bother doing the other side after that. It's amazing it ran as good as it did. Now to find out why this happened.

It has a Holley HP in it and numbers wise (wideband and timing), the tune seems pretty decent, but a couple of the plugs were pretty lean while others were dark. The cylinder with 70% leakdown was the lightest plug, I'm wondering if something is off in the injector setup causing that cylinder to run lean. Unfamiliar with the Holley, so I'll have to do some reading on it.

This is why I hate buying stuff that other people messed with, never know what's right and what's not. The shop that did the holley had the ignition setup wrong and it wasn't controlling timing, just stuck on the bypass side with 14* or so. Should have gone with my gut feeling and just torn the whole thing apart from the start and make sure it's all done right. At least I know it will be now.

 

[gsgnnut]

Might get away with just a top end rebuild but its a gamble that the lower end isn't thrashed

 

[kwiktsi]

Might get away with just a top end rebuild but its a gamble that the lower end isn't thrashed

Yeah, not likely. It was hissing through the motor, not out the intake and exhaust when I was doing the leakdown test. Out it comes. I'll feel better going through it all anyway. It was bought from a guy and worked on by a couple of shops out in Miami and I don't trust anyone overy there lol. Every car I have seen come from that coast (I'm on the west coast of fl) has been butchered to hell and back.