as I stated earlier referrencing Jones as a showpiece for Nike I have to agree with you on advertisers in seeing things differently than I do. I don't see how rational has anything to do with rules. We can do two things with rules, enforce them or change them but in this case the order was enforce then change. feelings and facts don't mix as shown here. Sorry I don't agree with you guys. Hamm and the American gymnastics people did nothing wrong.
No Wheaties for Hamm!
- Thread starter Buick From Hell
- Start date
strikeeagle
New Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2001
The issue is not whether Hamm/his camp did anything wrong. It's that they chose to turn their backs on the opportunity to do something right. That's the critical distinction, and one by which our characters are judged every day.
So far as Jones goes, I view her situation as unrelated or at best weakly related. Let's not use things folks have (unfairly) tagged to Jones to distract us from Mr. Hamm's behavior.
What Wheaties sees in Jones is that she's attractive, she smiles, she has a family, that she has a human side, that she's never failed a drug test, and that she failed to win a medal at this year's olympics, which makes her a bit of a tragic character, but one who ostensibly competed for the sheer joy of it. Yes, there's a lot to like about Ms. Jones. Perfect for a Wheaties box, wouldn't you say???
So far as Jones goes, I view her situation as unrelated or at best weakly related. Let's not use things folks have (unfairly) tagged to Jones to distract us from Mr. Hamm's behavior.
What Wheaties sees in Jones is that she's attractive, she smiles, she has a family, that she has a human side, that she's never failed a drug test, and that she failed to win a medal at this year's olympics, which makes her a bit of a tragic character, but one who ostensibly competed for the sheer joy of it. Yes, there's a lot to like about Ms. Jones. Perfect for a Wheaties box, wouldn't you say???
strikeeagle
New Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2001
Test...
Barry Bonds has never failed a drug test either or Mark MaGuire for that matter and the latter admitted to it recently. The Jones thing was a comparison of how and who advertisers pick to promote their products and not a relationship of track and field to gymnastics. Giving the Korean the gold when in fact he didn't win it makes absolutely no sense nor is it logical. There is nothing to "do the right thing" about. Hamm won the gold outright no matter how you slice it. I just don't where you guys are getting your information from because it is inaccurate......I'm sorry
BOOSTBROTHER
just spooling around
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2004
Very well put Drew.
What are we teaching our kids???
Rules not everyone likes them or follows them but how can you decide what rules or laws need to be followed or is it just the ones that you don't like? Or do we let the people with the money and the pack of Attorneys dicide what law can be broken without going to jail.
In a nut shell Hamm did the very best he could and the judges awarded him with the medal as they seen fit.
What are we teaching our kids???
Rules not everyone likes them or follows them but how can you decide what rules or laws need to be followed or is it just the ones that you don't like? Or do we let the people with the money and the pack of Attorneys dicide what law can be broken without going to jail.
In a nut shell Hamm did the very best he could and the judges awarded him with the medal as they seen fit.
strikeeagle
New Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2001
Like Hamm, you guys are just arguing for the sake of argument now.
You may teach your kid that it's OK to be beaten but win on a technicality. My kid will be the one handing the medal over and shaking hands.
I play a lot of softball. In my experience, it's mostly the lousy players that bitch about losing - the good ones accept the strong possibility of losing by choosing worthy opponents to compare their skills to. From that comes respect.
If that behavior and value set is what our coaches taught Hamm, I submit they're teaching the wrong things. It will be interesting to following Mr. Hamm's further adventures over the years. Unless he changes, Mr. Hamm's poor sense of himself may be setting him up for some bumps and bruises along the way.
You may teach your kid that it's OK to be beaten but win on a technicality. My kid will be the one handing the medal over and shaking hands.
I play a lot of softball. In my experience, it's mostly the lousy players that bitch about losing - the good ones accept the strong possibility of losing by choosing worthy opponents to compare their skills to. From that comes respect.
If that behavior and value set is what our coaches taught Hamm, I submit they're teaching the wrong things. It will be interesting to following Mr. Hamm's further adventures over the years. Unless he changes, Mr. Hamm's poor sense of himself may be setting him up for some bumps and bruises along the way.
There is nothing to argue about......period. The media has given this story a life of it's own. It's like an urban myth. If your child wants to take second place when he rightfully won first then well, what can I say except , again, that's not what happened here. Good day all. Drew
Feelings and keyboards?
Drew, no one here is letting their feelings run their keyboards, least of all me. Perhaps it is you?
My life does not change one whit whether Hamm keeps his wrongfully awarded gold medal or not. Neither does yours.
You are entitled to your opinion. But so am I to mine.
But - you still have not answered as to why Hamm would not even consider the idea of awarding a gold to the South Korean. Why is that?
You can rationalize all you wish but you are still wrong. Hamm knows he's wrong. The entire world, other than a few greedy Americans who think that 'winning is everything, even if it screws someone else' knows it is wrong.
I was raised to do what is right, Drew. If I 'won' on a scoring error, I would know within myself that I did not actually 'win' at all. I would like to think that most of us would. Those of us who believe that creed would have given the medal to Mr. Tae-Young the SECOND we learned we did not actually earn it.
Mr. Hamm and many who admire him apparently believe otherwise. That is so sad.
IF Hamm DID the right thing in keeping his medal, why is it we won't see his pic on the Wheaties box? Why hasn't he been treated to every possible talk show and radio exposure there is? Why haven't we read time and again what a great athlete he was in winning the mens' All-Around? Why hasn't HE been compared to Mary Lou Retton? Why hasn't HIS win been emblazoned all over Time's Square?
BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WIN IT.
And again, you have yet to express your opinion as to what you think Hamm's actions would be IF the scoring had gone otherwise and had he been screwed over like the South Korean was.
Why is that?
Can you honestly say that if the situation was reversed, that Hamm was scored lower initially due to some Twinkie of a judge who can't add, that Hamm would go quietly into the night and say, "Well, Yang got the higher score at first - he therefore won it fair and square"?
Do you think he would say, "I don't want to have a duplicate gold medal because Yang Tae-Young truly won it and it is rightfully his alone"?
Do you really think that the U.S. Olympic team would shrug their collective shoulders and say, "Oh well... the right man won the gold. It belongs to Mr. Tae-Young. We have no quarrel with the scoring at all."?
I didn't think so. At least I sure hope you don't.
Logic and reasoning, no matter how eloquent or repeated, will NEVER replace what is true and what is right.
C'mon, Drew. We're not beating this to death and I don't care if there have been 18 or 10,018 threads about this topic. Right is right and wrong is wrong.
Hamm did NOT win the gold and the world knows it.
So enjoy your Wheaties, Drew. Too bad your idea of a winner's picture won't be on the box.
But I really would like to know how you think Hamm would have responded had he been in Yang's shoes and Yang been in his?
Have a great day, Drew.
Drew, no one here is letting their feelings run their keyboards, least of all me. Perhaps it is you?
My life does not change one whit whether Hamm keeps his wrongfully awarded gold medal or not. Neither does yours.
You are entitled to your opinion. But so am I to mine.
But - you still have not answered as to why Hamm would not even consider the idea of awarding a gold to the South Korean. Why is that?
You can rationalize all you wish but you are still wrong. Hamm knows he's wrong. The entire world, other than a few greedy Americans who think that 'winning is everything, even if it screws someone else' knows it is wrong.
I was raised to do what is right, Drew. If I 'won' on a scoring error, I would know within myself that I did not actually 'win' at all. I would like to think that most of us would. Those of us who believe that creed would have given the medal to Mr. Tae-Young the SECOND we learned we did not actually earn it.
Mr. Hamm and many who admire him apparently believe otherwise. That is so sad.
IF Hamm DID the right thing in keeping his medal, why is it we won't see his pic on the Wheaties box? Why hasn't he been treated to every possible talk show and radio exposure there is? Why haven't we read time and again what a great athlete he was in winning the mens' All-Around? Why hasn't HE been compared to Mary Lou Retton? Why hasn't HIS win been emblazoned all over Time's Square?
BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WIN IT.
And again, you have yet to express your opinion as to what you think Hamm's actions would be IF the scoring had gone otherwise and had he been screwed over like the South Korean was.
Why is that?
Can you honestly say that if the situation was reversed, that Hamm was scored lower initially due to some Twinkie of a judge who can't add, that Hamm would go quietly into the night and say, "Well, Yang got the higher score at first - he therefore won it fair and square"?
Do you think he would say, "I don't want to have a duplicate gold medal because Yang Tae-Young truly won it and it is rightfully his alone"?
Do you really think that the U.S. Olympic team would shrug their collective shoulders and say, "Oh well... the right man won the gold. It belongs to Mr. Tae-Young. We have no quarrel with the scoring at all."?
I didn't think so. At least I sure hope you don't.
Logic and reasoning, no matter how eloquent or repeated, will NEVER replace what is true and what is right.
C'mon, Drew. We're not beating this to death and I don't care if there have been 18 or 10,018 threads about this topic. Right is right and wrong is wrong.
Hamm did NOT win the gold and the world knows it.
So enjoy your Wheaties, Drew. Too bad your idea of a winner's picture won't be on the box.
But I really would like to know how you think Hamm would have responded had he been in Yang's shoes and Yang been in his?
Have a great day, Drew.
buickpower
polytetrafluoroethylene
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
wheaties? what wheaties?
As far as the whole wheaties box goes, who cares about cereal? Wheaties did not put him on the box because he is a controversial character, as can be seen by this thread. Not because they felt one way or another about him as a person. Believe me, General Mills or whoever it is who makes wheaties does not have a set of morals in regards to situation like this, they avoid controversial figures in order to maximize profit. By the way, who uses a cereal as a standard to judge the morals or "sportsmanship" of athletes anyways?
As far as the whole wheaties box goes, who cares about cereal? Wheaties did not put him on the box because he is a controversial character, as can be seen by this thread. Not because they felt one way or another about him as a person. Believe me, General Mills or whoever it is who makes wheaties does not have a set of morals in regards to situation like this, they avoid controversial figures in order to maximize profit. By the way, who uses a cereal as a standard to judge the morals or "sportsmanship" of athletes anyways?
You are putting WAY to much supposition into a non issue. Again , check the facts. Hamm won this both ways and you have yet to either admit to the facts or check the facts. There is no need to say how would the Korean feel if the situation is reversed 'cause it's fantasy gymnastics. You don't need to get snippy with me cause we are just talking here. Believe and act any way you would like but before you try to stick up for a story ....get the facts.
The facts are that Hamm didn't win - it was given to him by a scoring error.
The facts are that you know if the role was reversed Hamm would be making a much larger fuss about this than ANYone.
The facts are that Hamm could have earned much, much more than gold if he would have been a gracious second place winner instead of a bogus first place 'taker'.
But those facts seem to have eluded you Drew. Hamm 'winning' the gold and then bitching about even sharing it is just yet another case of a greedy selfish American screwing over someone from another smaller country - the whole world already believes this is common for Americans.
Paul Hamm just reinforced it for us.
This will be my last post on the dead subject. I've wasted way too much time on it as it is.
Enjoy celebrating Hamm's hollow award. I find no glory in it whatsoever.
The facts are that Hamm didn't win - it was given to him by a scoring error.
True, and mistake the Korean was NOT deducted for gave him the gold in that fashion
The facts are that you know if the role was reversed Hamm would be making a much larger fuss about this than ANYone.
That didn't happen and that is where your suposition is. It's a pointless baseless debate
The facts are that Hamm could have earned much, much more than gold if he would have been a gracious second place winner instead of a bogus first place 'taker'.
I didn't know you were his agent
But those facts seem to have eluded you Drew. Hamm 'winning' the gold and then bitching about even sharing it is just yet another case of a greedy selfish American screwing over someone from another smaller country - the whole world already believes this is common for Americans.
Those are not facts, plain and simple yet you seem to be worried about what other people think..I smell something there
Enjoy celebrating Hamm's hollow award. I find no glory in it whatsoever.
The media got ahold of this and took a liberal angle, shame on them. Notice how this has dropped off the radar screen since the facts and the truth came out. I don't see any retractions nor will we.
