New to Turbobuick.Com! (Alcohol Injection)

BDC

BDC Motorsports
Joined
Apr 6, 2006
Howdy folks,

My name is Brian D. Cain and I'm new to the forum. I was referred to Turbobuick.com by a buddy of mine up in Green Bay, WI named Howard Coleman. He's Howracer on this forum and only has a few posts; all I believe limited to this section.

I am not a turbo Buick owner, much less a domestic vehicle owner. I am a Mazda rotary engine guy (builder and modifier) who also does tuning around the country of Mazda Rx7's as well as standalone fuel injection installations and what not. I've been into this for about 10 years now.

Since part of my trade is being a tuner, I'm always out trying to find a better way to go faster, do things better, and more importantly do things more reliably. The Mazda rotary engine (RE) has some reliability issues and I think they stem from their greater amount of heat output relative to that of a piston engine, load for load, which challenges even the best pump gas when it comes to trying to make good power out of them ...

... which is what leads me here, to this section of the forum. I've been researching the use of water and alcohol injection and, ever since being just recently turned on to Julio's AlkyControl system with the variable load injection, I've been seriously considering pursuing such a system setup by him for our cars. Btw Julio, I need to call you this week to talk to you about the systems you've got and what can be put together. I have all of the numbers as far as fuel flow, load, and what not.

After reading everything I could get my hands on involving this subject, I am absolutely sold on the idea that alcohol injection, 100% over water, is the solution to not only any reliability problems present with pump gas, but is also a way of attaining the best of both worlds -- the effective octane rating of race fuel under heavier loads yet while still retaining lower octane, more volatile fuel for lower loads such as idle, throttle, and vacuum-area acceleration.

The problem with our rotary engine community, as it stands, is there isn't a real drive for any kind of "auxilliary injection", much less a drive to do anything "outside the box" in a way that would cater to the engineering or scientific side of things (really looking at the car and the engine by the numbers instead of with the ideaology of just 'throwing parts' at it and going for big numbers). Given what I'm learning about alky injection, I'd like to take advantage of it and change the community's approach when it comes to making power, truly and reliably.

Anyhoo, I hope I don't offend anyone here or get driven off for asking technical questions re: alcohol injection even though it's for the rotary motor and not tailoured towards what you guys normally do. The engine architectures aside, I expect the math, science, and engineering of it to be the same between the two.

I hope to learn alot from this forum and can't wait to delve into alcohol injection! Expect to hear from me soon!

B
 
jdsgnx said:
Welcome!

You are in the right PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thanks JD :D :D :D

Hey thanks, JD!

I'm just getting started but I really and truly think, as I was telling my buddy earlier today, that "this is it" when it comes to both power and reliability on pump gas. The engines that I work on have such a bad rap for not being reliable under load yet all of my experience tells me that if you keep the engine from knocking (i.e. primarily using good fuel), then they make gobs of power and hold up just fine. I'm hoping that alcohol will be the ticket.

I spoke to Julio today and got alot of info from him. I've already located a fuel cell to use and I'll be on the road to getting one of his AlkyControl kits custom-made once I find a place to locate this thing. For our Mazda cars, I think we'll have to be restricted to keeping the cells/tanks in the back hatch area and just submit to running longer plumbing. It can be easily done, atleast at first guess, in meeting the requirements Julio's set forth about mounting heighths, etc.

I'll definitely be posting more as time goes on and as this project comes to fruition.

B
 
Just got my fuel cell for the system Julio's going to help me setup. It's a JAZ Junior Dragster 1-gal sized cell and I'll be mounting it in the back of the hatch in the spare tire well. I'll probably mount the pump up underneath the chassis somewhere and out of the way of things.

Here's a few videos and timeslips of the car from 6 years ago. It's not your everyday "rice burner" and it's no slouch.

http://bdc.cyberosity.com/v/BDC/RacingVideos/April06_2000/
 
Just received my Alkycontrol pump and fuel cell tank parts. Thanks, Razor! I'll be putting this stuff on on Monday, hopefully, to get a feel for what size lines I need made. Results for the "Wankel" will be coming soon...

B
 
i thought the only real reliability issues with wankel style rotary engines like the rx7 was the apex seals? but then again im only familiar with a factory setup, never tried to squeeze power out of one or worked on a modded one either.
and when is mazda gonna put a turbo on the rx8 and make that car what it should be :biggrin:
 
alvin87gn said:
i thought the only real reliability issues with wankel style rotary engines like the rx7 was the apex seals? but then again im only familiar with a factory setup, never tried to squeeze power out of one or worked on a modded one either.
and when is mazda gonna put a turbo on the rx8 and make that car what it should be :biggrin:

Hi Alvin,

Even though the apex seals are what gets the bad rap in common circles, honestly they're not the problem. The problem, however, is two-fold: One, the heat generated from the engine compared to that of a piston motor, and two the kind of gas that is used. Even the best pump gas can autoignite and pre-ignite the motor in its compression stroke. When this happens, the apex seals take the brunt of the force and can break and shatter at their ends, causing the "devil's claws" in the rotor housings as well as leaving chunks of seals in the rotors themselves. There is one approach to making apex seals stronger which involves machining the apex seal groove on a factory rotor from 2mm to 3mm and therefore using a 3mm wide seal, but otherwise there's not much that can be done.

The problem with the gas used is what eventually led me here to Razor and pursuing having a kit based on his design, controller, and pump built for my chassis. Everything concerning both the reliability as well as power output of an engine, particularly the rotary engine, hinges on the gas that is used. Part of my trade is being a tuner of these cars and engines and what I've largely discovered from the time I've done the race gas type setups I've found that the reliability of the engine is quite high when there's high octane fuels being used as well as good focus put into heat extraction. With those two, these things can run forever, it seems. I'm hoping to find my answers in pump-gas reliability with the AlkyControl setup once I get the system finished. The past couple of days I've been mocking up the fuel cell and the pump to see where everything will go. All I need now is the controller, injection nozzle, and the hosing once I've got the hardware mounted.

Don't know what to say about the Rx8. :) They went to a 10:1 compression ratio setup and I don't think it's been around long enough for anyone to really and truly fully explore the possibility of forced induction on it. If I ever get my hands on one, however, you'll bet your butt that I'll do it and I'll make some power out of it.

B
 
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