New Buick heads up class (67 turbo, etc...)

[Slow91z]

One thing I think you guys are missing is the 61 guys can still race in the class. I saw a guy just a couple of posts ago say he has a 45a and acted like it wasn't good enough. I'd be willing to bet a 45a would be very competitive in this class.

You guys have to remember guys with 67's have nothing to complain about so you aren't going to hear as much from them. I for one have a 67 and have every intention to race this class next year.

 

[bison]

One thing I think you guys are missing is the 61 guys can still race in the class. I saw a guy just a couple of posts ago say he has a 45a and acted like it wasn't good enough. I'd be willing to bet a 45a would be very competitive in this class.

You guys have to remember guys with 67's have nothing to complain about so you aren't going to hear as much from them. I for one have a 67 and have every intention to race this class next year.

I may run my car in the spring with the 66. If they allow aluminum heads. 9.80 should not be a problem Ill be a little over cammed for the 66 though. Id bet ill be faster than most running 67's with the 66. Have to buy a compressor cover though

 

[bison]

This class will be a lot faster than a lot of us may think with alky being allowed. The heat in the summer will have way less of an effect on performance. It going to be a very quick class for sure. 9.60's will be seen.

 

[KevinB]

This class will be a lot faster than a lot of us may think with alky being allowed. The heat in the summer will have way less of an effect on performance. It going to be a very quick class for sure. 9.60's will be seen.

The heat had a major effect on the track itself this year in Columbus. TSM cars were off a bit in ET's due to traction alone. If you can get your car to run 9.6's in legal THS trim during eliminations next year...I'll buy you a steak dinner

 

[Blazer406]

I am one of the guys suggesting a 61mm limit..... even though I have a TE45A and a 70 P trim turbo in my arsenal....I just feel there is a big void that needs filling with a mid 10 sec class.... and the current 61 turbo fits that bill.

Once you get into the low 10's.... or high 9's.... motor costs go thru the roof...and you break allot more stuff....It (either this class or a new class)ought to be a class you could hurt something one weekend.... then get a low mileage stock shortblock..... put on your favorite heads, intake, and cam..... and class legal turbo... and compete the following week.

If this new class were to make it to BG next year... or Reynolds...I'd like to run in it (I would have to ante up for a new hairdrier) .... but 9.60's (where the current 67 turbo class is headed) isn't where I am headed.... so why bother...

 

[Blazer406]

One thing I think you guys are missing is the 61 guys can still race in the class. I saw a guy just a couple of posts ago say he has a 45a and acted like it wasn't good enough. I'd be willing to bet a 45a would be very competitive in this class.

Puff Puff Pass.... I want some of that $hit too

Name one TE45A car that has made it into the 9's w/o nitrous..... much less quicker than 9.82..... with a/c and full weight street car trim....

 

[bison]

The heat had a major effect on the track itself this year in Columbus. TSM cars were off a bit in ET's due to traction alone. If you can get your car to run 9.6's in legal THS trim during eliminations next year...I'll buy you a steak dinner

You may be in for a big bill. I can eat a lot. 60's will be off because of the foot brake anyway. Didnt say no electronics either. XFI traction control and an AMS1000 will help a lot as long as there is some traction. I said 9.80's but you never know when your allowed to throw a lot of meth into the picture. Dont think i want to push that engine that hard though. Its actually for my other car. The S2 is going in the certified car.

 

[Kip]

I see this class focused on a field of cars that are to slow to hang with TSM cars.

Sam, I am sorry you see the class this way. I feel like you are talking down to people and never thought I would see that out of you. Not everyone wants a TSM car, this class is for the guy who wants to try heads up racing and maybe has never had a chance, the guy who wants to keep a more factory look to his car etc.
See ya, Kip

 

[Kip]

I will dominate this new class.

Jason
AffordableGN

Bold statement. Here is where it gets interesting, I have heard the same thing from many people. Should be a good show to watch.
Take care, Kip

 

[John Wilde]

Kip,

You are doing a great job!
I am sorry that I have not been able to call you yet...:frown:

 

[Kip]

I have been following this thread and the one on t6p and the impression I get is that most people wanting a smaller turbo rule (with the exception of Jason) aren't even going to race in the class. I for one like going faster, not the same or slower. That is why I don't like bracket racing. If I buy a new turbo for my car it would be bigger not smaller.

John

I think many people feel the same way as you and have bought bigger turbos to be more of a force when racing at their locals tracks. Now I am trying to give guys like you a place to race their cars at a Buick event.
Thanks for the input, Kip

 

[Kip]

you are after the average member that wants to run heads up and has no asspirations of being king of the class....the guy that has all the goodies and has a safe tune and is fed up with bracket racing...someone that wants to try something different and want to have Fun...thats who you are looking for...someone who can say hey I ran the THS class and had a blast...gonna do that again next year....all this talk of mid 9's and that its a racers class is already turning people away....will some run 9's yes...will most be in middle 10's I think so....will the 9's always win....who knows...until you line up and the light goes green....lets not try to kill the class before it even gets off the ground....

Excellent post. Thanks for the support.
Kip

 

[Kip]

From what I have seen and heard since I have bought my car in 07 is that it wouldn't matter what mods were allowed or not allowed, there will be people that will push the envelope as far as they can at whatever expense.
I think the rules that were suggested by Kip and Kevin are a good starting point. Keep it at that and let the class run its course and if changes need to be made at the end of next season, then make the changes.

Deren

Deren, you hit the nail on the head.
See ya, Kip

 

[Kip]

Just an observation and I might be way off base, but it really sounds to me like Kip basically started this class by building the rules around a few cars in his area with 67mm turbos/109 combos that are not wanting to step up to the TSM class considering how out of hand it has become. That is fine and all but in terms of car counts it's not always the smartest thing to do because as I'm sure most know the TSS/TSE class rules were pretty much based off of Red Armstrong's cars as well as some of his other buddies in his area. I'm sure the GSCA had good intentions in making the rules for TSS/TSE, but it seems like they never really get a decent car count for either of those classes simply because most don't have cars that fit the rules.

Having said that I give Kip credit for trying to start another class and in the end it is simply impossible to make everyone happy!

I will have to set the record straight here. No one car was in mind when I made up the class/rules, cars were in mind. Not local cars but cars that I see at events each year. Just for everyones information I made almost all the Buick events this year and have been doing that for many years now.I have looked at cars and talked to people who want to race heads up but have no place to do, hence this class. You mention TSS/TSE I have raced both of those classes along with TSL, TSM and several heads up Buick classes that are now gone. I have seen the problems with each and every class and know THS is going to have troubles also but if I do not try to organize and run this class I think alot of people are going to miss out on a chance to have a good time.
Take care, Kip

 

[Kip]

This class will be a lot faster than a lot of us may think with alky being allowed. The heat in the summer will have way less of an effect on performance. It going to be a very quick class for sure. 9.60's will be seen.

Can you name any racers already running that fast with in the THS rules? If so I wouldl ove to have their name and number so I could contact them.
Peace, Kip

 

[V8Assassin]

Sam, I am sorry you see the class this way. I feel like you are talking down to people and never thought I would see that out of you. Not everyone wants a TSM car, this class is for the guy who wants to try heads up racing and maybe has never had a chance, the guy who wants to keep a more factory look to his car etc.
See ya, Kip

Can you name any racers already running that fast with in the THS rules? If so I wouldl ove to have their name and number so I could contact them.
Peace, Kip

Gotta get back in and throw my .02, so take it for what's it's worth.

Sam was not talking down to anyone, he was simply expressing his opinion which it seems he is not alone in. Possibly the powers that be should be more willing to accept others thoughts in a constructive way without firing back in this manner. Given the electronics, turbo, alky, and other options it would appear that these cars will be capable of going into the nines with no problem.

This brings me to my second point. It is not about what people are doing right now, it is about how the new class will push people to go faster with their combo's. When TSM started there was no one going 9.0's or hunting 8's, well now there are multiple people doing just that. To jump out and say "show me somebody doing that" is stupid, no offense, let's look forward to what may be posssible and not limit ourselves to what is currently being done. It would be very shortsighted not to accept that someone will come out of the pack and throw down big numbers in this, or any, new class. It won't take long for someone with the bankroll and a willingness to break parts to approach the numbers some say are impossible, again I refer to TSM for proof.

In the end I sincerely hope the new class gets put together and is very successful. Anything that generates interest in our cars, technology, and events is a blessing. I wish Kip and the others all the luck in the world putting this together. Obviously, you can't please everyone, but it would be great to see a new class with big car counts. Good Luck!!

 

[KevinB]

I hope no one gets scared away from this class because of talk about how fast it might be. Look at this years Reynolds tsm race. Everybody promised 8 second passes....the winner ran a 9.5. In heads up racing on a pro tree, anything can happen.

 

[Slow91z]

The heat had a major effect on the track itself this year in Columbus. TSM cars were off a bit in ET's due to traction alone. If you can get your car to run 9.6's in legal THS trim during eliminations next year...I'll buy you a steak dinner

Thanks Kevin, Do you deliver to the track or am I going to have to eat it that night?

 

[Slow91z]

This brings me to my second point. It is not about what people are doing right now, it is about how the new class will push people to go faster with their combo's. When TSM started there was no one going 9.0's or hunting 8's, well now there are multiple people doing just that. To jump out and say "show me somebody doing that" is stupid, no offense, let's look forward to what may be posssible and not limit ourselves to what is currently being done. It would be very shortsighted not to accept that someone will come out of the pack and throw down big numbers in this, or any, new class. It won't take long for someone with the bankroll and a willingness to break parts to approach the numbers some say are impossible, again I refer to TSM for proof.

Maybe you missed it, but these are the rules for the 1st year to get as many people into the class as possible, they can always change later...How about this, come race a car and next year the powers that be will listen to the racers, as opposed to people on the internet who will not show up.

 

[scot w.]

Maybe you missed it, but these are the rules for the 1st year to get as many people into the class as possible, they can always change later...How about this, come race a car and next year the powers that be will listen to the racers, as opposed to people on the internet who will not show up.

(SLOW) I think your missing (V8's) point on this as well. What he's saying is simply to look alittle into the future of where this class may go! Like in TSM.

About him racing a car? His is days away from being finished and he will be racing in TSM ALL next year!

ANOTHER THING! He also puts up sponsor money in TSM so I would think he should be qualifyed to give his input on a class that he might be intrested in sponsoring also!! It's not a good thing to bash on people who actually bring sponsoship money to these classes, after all that is what brings more people into the class!


Plus, These rules I belive are "BASIC" as stated and are a start to get things going..

THIS IS OFF T6P below.........................................................................

Very basic over view of the rules below:


3500# for an iron headed 8445 casting head
3650# for an aluminum headed aftermarket head with stock style pattern
(no stage heads)
Block is to be a 109 Buick V6 only
Transmission has to be a 200R4 with any converter allowed
Any air to air intercooler, no liquid or add on cooling allowed
After market fuel management allowed
Factory AC and heat equipment required
Factory stock appearing Type 1 or 2 DIS. Cam position sensor required.
Alchy injection allowed, gasoline must be used as primary fuel source.
Turbo will be limited to a 67mm that is presently being sold to the public.
( no customs one off stuff)
Full exhaust required, must muffle and exit in stock location. Single allowed.
max size of single ordaul 3.5 inches
Stock fuel tank must be in place but a fuel cell can be added.
4 matching wheels required.
Slick up 10.5 sidewall designation, Drag radial up 275/60

This is just a start and many more things will have be looked at but I believe it should give everyone interested an idea of what kinda cars this class is being put together for.

Take care, Kip


Scot W.