Engine was rebuilt 4 or 5 years ago. I didn't drive my car last year much due to transmission issues - but I recall hearing a noise at certain rpm last summer. I recently got it on the road again and resumed looking into the noise. I also noticed the oil pressure is low. Just warmed up to operating temp in the garage it had less than 10# at idle with new 10-40 Royal Purple Synthetic. I also verified my electric gauge with a mechanical gauge. I put in 20-50 conventional and with same conditions had 20 psi and raised at least 10 psi per 1000 rpm. Thought it was good so hit the street. However after maybe a 15 mile drive once back at home noticed down under 10 psi again. I also had reset valves prior to drive. After some reading I decided to pull the oil pump apart. There is some what I would call minor scratching on the oil pump filter housing, not very deep at all. I was kind of hoping it would be chewed up a bit and low oil pressure could be causing some valve train noise. How much wear would it take on the oil pump filter housing to lose pressure? Tonight a friend stopped by and suggested we cut the oil filter apart which he did with a cut off wheel. There were filings in the filter - some brass colored and some silver. Most of which are metallic - and stick to a magnet. If it was bearing material it wouldn't stick to the magnet. So I thought perhaps the cut off wheel was a bad idea as it could have put the filings into the filter. So I drained the oil into a white pail and let it settle for a while - then drained it off slowly. I couldn't see much for debris in the oil. I'm looking for directions or opinions on where to go next. Drop the pan, inspect the bearings? Re-surface the housing, put it back together and run it, then re-examine oil filter - cutting it apart cleaner? Engine has hydraulic roller cam. Not too many miles ago I checked crank and cam end play. Crank was bang on, cam was tight at .002" if I remember correctly. Was chasing hi rpm knock readings. Could be related... Is it trying to eat itself?
Motor advise - noise and low oil pressure
- Thread starter Justa6MB
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2006
Is it lifter noise? Is the noise there all the time?
As long as oil pressure responds quick with rpm I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Rick
As long as oil pressure responds quick with rpm I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Rick
I've had a hard time with the noise - just I can tell it's there. Starts around 2,000 rpm and I've only been able to hear it while driving. Seems like valve train to me so I set the valve preload to 2/3 turn. I think the lifters are 853's. How much marking on oil pump filter housing is acceptable?
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2006
Swirl marks in the flange are common. As long as the gears didn't wear a pocket it's all good.
Rick
Rick
machinegun
Active Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
Swirl marks or very light so you cant really feel it scuff marks are normal wear. If you have not put it back together yet you can perform an oil sand with 1000 grit and polish with 1500. This will give you a nice resurface and you can use all the original gaskets as this will not affect clearance.
Now to your noise, roller lifters are a little noisier than flat tappet so this maybe normal it seems to be different on every engine. You may also want to verify you have no exhaust leaks, those can sound very much like a lifter tap.
10 psi hot idle is not a big concern, especially if it rises 10psi fro ever 1K of rpm. Sounds like the oiling systems is fine.
Your filter cut open is contaminated by your wheel and is of absolutely no use to you.
Hope this helps
Now to your noise, roller lifters are a little noisier than flat tappet so this maybe normal it seems to be different on every engine. You may also want to verify you have no exhaust leaks, those can sound very much like a lifter tap.
10 psi hot idle is not a big concern, especially if it rises 10psi fro ever 1K of rpm. Sounds like the oiling systems is fine.
Your filter cut open is contaminated by your wheel and is of absolutely no use to you.
Hope this helps
When you put the pump back together did you check the end clearance? Depending on the gasket you can get more than you bargained for right there and head in the wrong direction with your troubleshooting. I would pull the pan and see what is up if it was me just to know for sure before I started flogging the motor again.
Darren, what was your oil pressure before? Did I tell you what my problem was when I ran the 11.86 and number 5 rockers weren't moving? It was the side shims on the rocker shafts that caused binding.
Drop the pan and have a look. Hope all goes well so we can head out to the track this year.
Drop the pan and have a look. Hope all goes well so we can head out to the track this year.
Thanks for the input guys. The exhaust leak is a good call - I shuda thought to check that and willl look into that closer. I did the Earl Brown treatment to my front cover and spent a lot of time checking the oil pump clearances when it was on the stand. However I'm ashamed to admit this...but I did have trouble priming the oil pump - twice now. The engine has run for a very short period of time with zero oil pressure. However once primed it had 70+ cold and 20+ hot so I figured I dodged the bullet. Just noticed the lower pressure this year. Last night I did an oil sand on the flange and was able to remove all swirls. What all would I be able to check if I pull the pan? I haven't decided to pull the pan yet. I may put it together, prime, fire, check for exhaust leaks, drive it a bit, and then cut the oil filter apart properly. Question on the pump gears tho cuz it's been a while... How do the marks on the gears go together?
I would pull the pan for piece of mind, making sure the mains and rods are in good shape. If you haven't changed out the oil, you could always send it to a lab to be tested. That's what I did when I encountered problems with my motor, even though the builder said nothing was wrong. I just showed him the piece of paper that showed him otherwise.
Oh man...well I pulled the pan off tonight and proceeded to start pulling the motor 
At first I thought I struck gold! I suppose the good news is I wasn't crazy, something was going on - and it was going to get a lot worse. So I'm assuming it is bearing? Well anyway it's 1/2 out and I'll call the engine builder tomorrow. I couldn't see anything from the bottom end, except rods 5 and 6 were marked - obviously from the engine builder, and they were reversed. I don't know if that could be catastrophic or not but it likely didn't help.
At first I thought I struck gold! I suppose the good news is I wasn't crazy, something was going on - and it was going to get a lot worse. So I'm assuming it is bearing? Well anyway it's 1/2 out and I'll call the engine builder tomorrow. I couldn't see anything from the bottom end, except rods 5 and 6 were marked - obviously from the engine builder, and they were reversed. I don't know if that could be catastrophic or not but it likely didn't help. - Joined
- Feb 18, 2006
Holy smokes! Something got chewed to hell.
Buick Mark
Active Member
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2001
Those look like big chunks!! Is your cam still in one piece....... meaning, are all your lobes still intact?
Those chunks judging from the blurry pics look like your cam lobes are falling apart.
Those chunks judging from the blurry pics look like your cam lobes are falling apart.
Hey Nick, nope no turbo saver... I suppose it will mean a trip back to PTE. I'm sure it's bearings but I'll be pulling it apart this weekend. It's a roller cam so I was assuming the lobes would be fine, but the journals? It will be interesting to see how the crank, rods, and cam all look.
Well I pulled the motor today and stripped it partially down. I pulled the main caps and it was certainly main bearings. The crank doesn't look too bad but I'm no machinist. How much can they grind a crank? Is it a big expense to go to a forged steel crank? One thing I noticed is that although the nuts were tight on the main studs, the studs themselves were not tight. Is this normal? I haven't pulled the heads yet but from the bottom and through the lifter gallery the cam lobes and lifters don't show any damage. I took the bolts out of one rod but I couldn't pull the rod apart to see how they look.
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- Joined
- Feb 18, 2006
The bearings are NOT the source of the chunks. Did you get the front cover off yet?
It's normal for the studs to be finger tight in block.
Rick
It's normal for the studs to be finger tight in block.
Rick
Well after reading the last post, I ran out and tore the rest of it down. The only thing I could find in the top end is 2 roller rockers that are stiffer than the rest. I pulled the front cover and couldn't see any signs of carnage. 1 question tho....is there supposed to be a timing chain tensioner on the double roller chain? My memory is good but short... I remember the stock spring tensioner and was expecting it to be there. I pulled the cam out and it and the lifters seem ok. So if it isn't bearing material, could it have come from the turbo? Because there is wear in the turbo, but I figured it was the chicken and the bearing failure was the egg. Lastly I sure didn't like the look of the front cover inside. I know I went through this last time too. Nothing chewed, but there are lots of cracks and things in there. Is this normal and anything to worry about?
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The double roller timing chain does not use a tensioner and the lines you are seeing in the cover look normal to me.
