LPI liquid propane injection

[frank_ster]

so i have been doing some research into running my car completely on propane.

you all may be fimilar with the vapor carb or vapor injection system that there are ebay kits for and other web sites selling kits. these tend to be low on power. need to be started on gas and warmed.

are many of you fimilar with LPI ?
I did some reading about it and started looking for lip injectors and coudn't find anything.
there are a lot of city trucks running on lpi in nyc. and apretly there are drag racers also running on lpi or similar.

so i simply tried it, i took a bbq can and ran it directly into my fuel rail into the 65# injectors and started it up ran .. then took it for a drive!
i have video of idling.

what i have learned is that there needs to be a pump and return system, the pump doesnt not need to raise the pressure high but to circulate in the event of the fuel rail getting hot or at least warmer than the tank causing evaporation or boiling. and mostly causing the engine hard to start after engine warmed up.

the power benefits are similar to e85 but with only a 10% loss of fuel economy to gas.
and propane is typically half the price of gas depending on your area.

do any of you have any insight on this ? am i wrong anywhere here ?

 

[frank_ster]

this is a round tank from europ that i got for my legacy, it fits right in the spare tire hole, and even the bolt that holds down the spare also holds down the tank!
the top of the tank gets a cap and you silicone the bottom around the tank. that is done so if there are any leaks they get pushed out of the car.
the tank is 55L and has a gauge with electric sending unit that can be connected to the dash fuel gauge.

 

[SS/GN]

Propane is for barbecues I ran a fleet of trucks for many years on propane,no way would I have a perf car on a barbecue fuel. Hard on heads and secondary ignition.If you want to go fast,pump gas and alchy

 

[frank_ster]

^ Those were probably vapor systems.

 

[SS/GN]

^ Those were probably vapor systems.

Well I had one of only a dozen Ford vans that had electronic injected propane and it was the biggest pos I ever had. Propane does not have the tech support that alchy does .

 

[frank_ster]

well i'll be the tech support, i know the vapor systems are shitty. these cant be compared its a night and day difference.
The liquid injection power expectations are similar to e 85 but with double the mpg's

 

[EVIL]

How long before you get it running?

D

 

[frank_ster]

^ yes good question .. i just need to find some time.
only concern i have right now is for switching from gas to propane, other than going under the hood to switch hoses.
the best way i can think of is to reinstall my intake where i had 2 fuel rails and 2 batches of 6 injectors.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Didn't Jay Carter do a propane system for TR's?????????????????

 

[RatFink]

Interesting. Hope to see you get it all working and on the road with all propane. A+ for doing your own thing.

 

[Grumpy]

Didn't Jay Carter do a propane system for TR's?????????????????

yes he did !!! It was neat with the flames coming out of the exhaust I have pics of the set up here somewhere. Guys were not crazy having a bottle of propane in the trunk.

 

[Pronto]

There used to be a Viper that was at the cruise nights around here that had propane injection. I don't think a tank of propane is any more dangerous than an overflow tank full of methanol.

 

[Rafs-T-Type]

I agree. You cook stuff right over the tank, but are worried about it in your trunk? I would just make sure you close the valve if you get rear ended.

 

[frank_ster]

well the tank has its own electric shut off valve, the steel the tank is made of is designed not to crank when hit.
it does have a over pressure valve incase of being crushed.
propane doesn't soak into skin and cloth so its much less chance of getting burned.
there is a lot of info and a lot of people believe that propane is actaully safer.

 

[HighPSI]

I am very familiar with racing on straight propane. I have two customers who have won multiple NMRA & NMCA Championships running on propane. They run a propane tank with an Aeromotive fuel pump mounted inside with a regulator and return line. The regulator controls the pressure differential between the tank and the rail and allows the fuel to flow. You will want to extend your fuel pump prime to prevent vapor lock on hot starts. I use special XFI software that has additional trim tables for fuel pressure and fuel temperature. The fuel pressure will change by over 100psi between a hot day and cold day. This affects fueling by over 30%. Fuel temperature affects it by another 10% depending on the weather. If you have any questions, I will be more than happy to answer them.

 

[frank_ster]

^ wow great ! yes i know fuel pressure will vary dramatically. i will use the stock gas fpr to keep it up to at least 43 psi.
i want to use a gerotor pump just mounted next to the tank its billet aluminum so it should hold the pressure with out problems.
for fueling i'm already using megasquirt 3 so i can do what ever i want there for fuel trims.

 

[HighPSI]

How are you going to maintain 43 psi with a return line? We run ours between 150-300 psi. The inlet temps drop below freezing in the intake port.

 

[frank_ster]

well planing on running about 10-15 psi above the propane pressure. I'm wondering if that will be enough pressure raise to prevent boiling.

 

[HighPSI]

I'm not following you. You're going to run 43 psi at the rail or 15 psi above tank pressure at the rail? Return system or dead head?

 

[frank_ster]

Minimum 43 psi. From the stock fpr.
But as high as 150 psi depending the temperature of the tank
It's going to be return style with two pressure regulators the stock one and another that will bias 10-15 lbs in to the tank.
Since the stock one will be completely open once the pressure is over 43 psi .
And have a 140 gph pump.