Limits Of 30# Injectors

[~JM~]

I have a set of 30# Accel injectors that the P/O had installed. Ever since I've increased the breathing by swapping to an open element air filter, I've run lean. I've increased the fueling within my TT chip & then increased the base fuel pressure to 45#, yet I'm still lean on my O2 readings & my plugs look white.

I need to have a new chip burned to work with some other changes that I've made & I'm thinking of ordering a set of 60# injectors along with it. How far will the 60's go? Is this the largest set of injectors that a single Walbro can supply? Does it look like I'm headed in the right direction with ordering the 60's, or am I overlooking something?

Thank you
~JM~

 

[3.8L V-8 eater]

Those 60lb injectors will take you to the low elevens to high tens and if you have alky a little further.....Personally if your buying new I would just order the 80lb high Z injectors and have a little more room to grow. They are the same price as the 60's....I wouldn't spend money on updating a chip for 30lbers...Save up a little more money and do the 60 or 80's.....How hard are you running the car?? How much boost?? Be sure the lean condition is not a fuel pump starting to get lazy.....A single Walbro can take you to high tens, but if I were any faster then a double pumper should be installed....They do have some newer fuel pumps out that flow more than a standard Walbro, but they require a little bigger return line to keep the base fuel pressure under control...

 

[Pronto]

You should not be lean with 30lb injectors and just an intake.

 

[NorEaster]

I have a set of 30# Accel injectors that the P/O had installed. Ever since I've increased the breathing by swapping to an open element air filter, I've run lean. I've increased the fueling within my TT chip & then increased the base fuel pressure to 45#, yet I'm still lean on my O2 readings & my plugs look white.

I need to have a new chip burned to work with some other changes that I've made & I'm thinking of ordering a set of 60# injectors along with it. How far will the 60's go? Is this the largest set of injectors that a single Walbro can supply? Does it look like I'm headed in the right direction with ordering the 60's, or am I overlooking something?

Thank you
~JM~

How high have you bumped your fuel up in the chip? Whats the BLM?

 

[fuzzyGN]

Something else is wrong. I have run 12.60 with my 30's and wasn't to their limit. Close but not quite. I think either your FPR isn't increasing with boost or your pump is done. No where near the limits of the injectors thou. Fix what is broke and then upgrade. You will be happier in the end.

 

[Eric Stage I]

30's are fine for your setup.
You can't really add WOT fuel to a 30lb chip, as it is already maxed (100% dc) as long as your MAF is hitting 255.

 

[Grumpy]

We ran 11.80s with 30's.. Will you ?? I wouldn't recommend that till you learn more about the car. Bottom line "how fast do you want to go ??? 60s are an awesome injector.. runs great with one pump OR better with a dash of Alky (9's) . Like I was mouthing off before.. Get a handle on TUNING !! It's the name of the game an always look for NO KNOCK !! Very simple So I can see you goin for the 120's with a fast system now ??

 

[~JM~]

"We ran 11.80s with 30's.. Will you ??" I doubt it because quarter mile times don't really interest me. Have no interest in a Fast System. I'm sure the OEM ECM will satisfy my needs.

Something else is wrong. I have run 12.60 with my 30's and wasn't to their limit. Close but not quite. I think either your FPR isn't increasing with boost or your pump is done. No where near the limits of the injectors thou. Fix what is broke and then upgrade. You will be happier in the end.

I have a new pump & fuel pressure is increasing properly. I have never seen O2 readings higher than low 700's & this is with a new O2 sensor. This has been preventing me from running the car hard. I have made several modifications to improve breathing, including some light porting, removing restrictions in the flow paths & to reduce back pressure. The Butt Dyno feels improvement with improved throttle response & loss of traction at lighter throttle applications, but now I'm lean. I have limited my boost to 16# for the time being.

So... To those of you who say to learn how to tune. How about some instruction instead of just telling me that I'm wrong. Should I increase the base fuel pressure more?

Thank you
~JM~

 

[Grumpy]

oh sorry... thought you knew everything. good luck .. oh... not everything is about racing the car. Totally agree !! A great runnin street car is hard to beat !!

 

[TurboTnZ06]

Base FP doesn't mean squat at WOT. What is the actual FP at WOT? Should see your boost psi + base for fuel pressure. This is where a powerlogger shines because you can log all this stuff on one run and see what's up (need elec FP sender though which is another $100 of kool guy parts ) j/k I run one. Maybe there is a leak on the boost line to the FP regulator. Maybe the pump in the trunk is leaking fuel back into the tank because previous owner used the wrong rubber line on the pump-been there and done that...

 

[~JM~]

oh sorry... thought you knew everything. good luck .. oh... not everything is about racing the car. Totally agree !! A great runnin street car is hard to beat !!

I've never claimed to know everything. If you have read any of my posts I have stated repeatedly that these cars are new to me. The only topics that I can speak with any authority is some of the firearms threads. You really need to get over yourself.

If you don't have anything positive to add than just use the ignore feature.

~JM~

 

[~JM~]

I'm fairly certain that the fuel pump & hotwire install were done properly. I was fortunate enough to have Terry Ryan take on that project.

Thanks
~JM~

 

[pacecarta]

Those 60lb injectors will take you to the low elevens to high tens and if you have alky a little further.....Personally if your buying new I would just order the 80lb high Z injectors and have a little more room to grow. They are the same price as the 60's....

better recheck whatever math or source you got your info from
a single walbro will be maxed out before 60s reach their limit

surprised grumpy didnt correct you as his went to the 9s with alky helping . guess i can forgive Dan he is getting old

my last pass at 10.11 put my fuel consumption at 56lb hr per injector with alky, running a little rich on 93 with a splash of alky (sprayed not stirred) , with race gas you can run less fuel

the math for injectors HP capability on turbo, fuel only ..is
multiply the lb/ hr rating x 6 injectors / .50 BSFC (lbs of fuel per HP)
so 30s are capable of 360 hp
360 hp will propel the average 3700lb turbo regal to 12.6
increase fp and you can stretch that # slightly
be lighter as 3550lbs is posible with lighter rims lose the spare /jack, alum or fiberglass (loose weight at jenny craig) , ditch the sub amp and box , alum bumpers and youll go faster ... maybe 12.4s
launch better on stickier tires and a better converter and you can shave a few tenths from that
fyi have been high 11s stock turbo and motor , never tried to push the 30 injectors that far .. 12.3s stock turbo and motor.


now 60s (really 65s) will support twice the 30s using simple math twice as big twice as much HP potential
figure at that hp youll target a little richer so figure bsfc of .55 lb per hp
700hp potential . thats enough to run 10.0 at 3550lbs

 

[ZNix]

New fuel filter? Bent fuel line? Leaky rubber line? Are you getting knock?

Nix

 

[pacecarta]

-jm-
lean determined by ?
any knock?
what boost?
what turbo?
any other mods (if you didnt do the build or tear it down you may not even be aware of)?
what maf ?
hows the O2 sensor
has the ignition system been tested , condition of wires? , misfiring will create a false lean under load

your goal needs to be set if you are considering injectors , unless its a decision that doesnt bother you changing later
you might be pushing the 30s too far and 60s will carry you far ... depending on gaol and budget 36s or 42s might fit your needs and they will be cheap (only $180 new) compared to the $340 for a set of 60's(actually65#) motorons

but you know when you pop your hood and they ask what injectors are you running , you want to say 65s... since they are the latest Kool parts

 

[87-WE2]

sub'd

 

[~JM~]

lean determined by ? Scanmaster readings of low 700's & white plugs
any knock? No knock at 16# under any driving condition. Any higher & yes I have KR.
what boost? Limited to 16# at this time
what turbo? OEM
any other mods (if you didnt do the build or tear it down you may not even be aware of)? The car was fairly stock when I bought it & hadn't been modded other than an old style chip & the 30# inj's.
what maf ? OEM MAF freshly cleaned & 1 screen. Has an AFE Pro-Guard 7 air filter attached to the end.
hows the O2 sensor Recently replaced.
has the ignition system been tested , condition of wires? , misfiring will create a false lean under load. NO I have not messed with the ign. system in any way other than replace the plugs. I have not experienced any mis-fires or back firing. The P/O recently replaced the coil pack & wires.

What else can I tell you?

Thank you
~JM~

 

[Scott Atk]

OK, I'll be the army of one. I say get the 60's and a matched TT chip. 30's are basically stock replacements. It's obvious you want to increase the car's performance, it's not like you would be wasting the money, if you don't need them now, you will within a year when you add more go fast stuff!

 

[~JM~]

OK, I'll be the army of one. I say get the 60's and a matched TT chip. 30's are basically stock replacements. It's obvious you want to increase the car's performance, it's not like you would be wasting the money, if you don't need them now, you will within a year when you add more go fast stuff!

I like to buy once whenever possible & I tend to over build for reliability, or to grow into. I hadn't considered anything larger than the 60's until one of the replies above recommended to just go for the 80's instead. I have big plans for the car, but only so much budget so it will take me a while for higher end parts. My car is not a strip car & I doubt that it ever will be. I prefer a more rounded vehicle, freeway flyer, road racer, something that corners well, etc.

Thank you
~JM~

 

[Eric Stage I]

I agree that there's nothing wrong with getting the 60's. Most of the time though, a stock turbo is well matched to stock injectors (or 30's). Scott is right that if you plan to go faster, you might has well do the 60's (or 42's depending on goals and budget).
I've run into many cars that don't show the "typical" O2's, so it could be that there's nothing wrong. I expect the plugs to be clean (fairly white), because our cars run in closed loop at an A/F of 14.7 when driving around, which keeps the plugs clean.
How long have you owned the car? Is it possible the turbo isn't stock? Some turbos look exactly like stock.